Was Satan Cast Out of Heaven in 1914?

by Kenneson 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Kenneson

  According to JWs Christ established his Kingdom in the heavens in 1914 and subsequently cast Satan out of heaven then. And they point to Rev. 12:7-9 for "proof." However, Rev. 12:7-9 mentions Michael the archangel as doing that feat; neither Christ nor 1914 are mentioned. There are even more problems for this interpretation. If it were true that the Devil and his angels remained in heaven until the year 1914, how was it possible for the Devil to be present on earth when Christ was alive on earth? Matt. 4:1 tells about the Devil tempting Christ. And who was it that tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden? Gen. 3 And how could Christ say that he had already seen Satan cast out way before 1914? Luke 10:18 If Jesus saw Satan cast out of heaven, there was no way for him to have access back to heaven. And there was no need for Christ to do in 1914 what Michael had already done.

  Some of these fallen angels(Gen. 6:1-6) are no longer even on earth. See Jude 6 and 2 Pet. 2:4-10

  Why would St. Peter say before 1914 that the Devil is already "prowling around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to eat. Stand up to him, strong in faith.?." (1 Pet. 5:8-9)

  Up until the redemption Satan was lord of this world (1John 5:19) but the death of Christ was a complete perfect victory over the Devil, his demons and sin. "It was to undo all that the Devil has done, that the Son of God appeared." (1John 3:8). This didn't have to wait until 1914. See also Matt. 12:27, 28

  Moreover, Christ's death destroyed the power of Satan over men by making availabe to them the grace necessary for salvation and santification. John 12:31 See also St. Paul's explanation in Col. 1:9-14. Through his crucifixion Christ disarmed the demonic powers, the "principalities" and "authorities." (Col. 2:15) Likewise, angels, authorities, and powers are subdued to Christ long before 1914. (1 Pet. 3:22).

  James 4:7 "Subject yourselves, therefore, to God; but oppose the Devil and he will flee from you." NWT
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  ESTEE

  Was Satan Cast Out?

  Who...?

  ESTEE
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  minimus

  March 26, 1918....check out my thread on the active page.
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  Kenneson

  LOL
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  garybuss

  I remember that topic being covered. Before 1914 Satan had access to the earth as well as heaven and he traveled back and forth . . sort of like a traveling salesman. After 1914 he only had access to earth. His territory card was "adjusted".

  When we deal with ghosts and invisible gods, it's easy to change things. That's why religion is the perfect scam.
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  Kenneson

  Garybuss,

  How would JWs respond to the following:

  But Satan apparently became "the father of lies," a wicked and rebellious angel long before 1914. How could he have had access back to heaven, especially since no liar nor disgusting thing can be there? See Rev. 21:27 If even good men like Moses did not feel comforable in the presence of God (Ex. 3:1-6), how could wicked spirit angels? Are we to believe that God sort of "moved over" in Heaven to make room for the Devil and his evil angels when they weren't on earth and this was permitted until modern times? If on earth there is to be no fellowship between light and darkness (2 Cor.6:14), how could it exist in heaven?
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  heathen

  The WTBTS teaches that at the end of the appointed times of the nations the dragon and original serpent were cast out of heaven dragging one third of all the stars in it's tail . They interpret that as meaning satan and one third of all the angels were involved in the war in heaven against michael the arch angel . This does go back to what it says in Daniel about the fall of judah at the hands of babylon and of course alot of mathmetics that noone understands exept for those at brooklyn to which they conclude lead them to believe that 1914 was the pivotal date . The WTBTS says that satan was able to travel between heaven and earth until the appointed times of the nations were concluded and is now imprisoned on earth awaiting the conclusion of this system of things and wreaking havok on the true christians .
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  AGuest

  may you have peace!

  According to JWs Christ established his Kingdom in the heavens in 1914 and subsequently cast Satan out of heaven then. And they point to Rev. 12:7-9 for "proof." However, Rev. 12:7-9 mentions Michael the archangel as doing that feat; neither Christ nor 1914 are mentioned. There are even more problems for this interpretation.

  1. If it were true that the Devil and his angels remained in heaven until the year 1914, how was it possible for the Devil to be present on earth when Christ was alive on earth? Matt. 4:1 tells about the Devil tempting Christ.

  2. And who was it that tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden? Gen. 3

  3. And how could Christ say that he had already seen Satan cast out way before 1914? Luke 10:18 If Jesus saw Satan cast out of heaven, there was no way for him to have access back to heaven. And there was no need for Christ to do in 1914 what Michael had already done.

  1. Satan and his angels were cast out in 30 CE... shortly after my Lord entered into heaven to present his sacrifice. Once my Lord was inaugurated as king and began to rule... he gave the command... and Michael and his angels battled... and prevailed. Satan and his angels... although still in the spirit "realm"... were cast out of "heaven" in that realm... and can now only access this realm. They do so... through living beings, human and animal alike (they must use that which has life blood in it and not something inanimate).

  2. That was Satan. Before being cast out... he had access to both heaven and earth. That is why he responded as he did when being questioned regarding Job (after taking his station IN HEAVEN... he replied, "In the earth and roving about in it.") Spirit beings have always had access to this realm; that is why Jacob saw a ladder/stairway with them asceding and descending.

  3. Because 30 CE is before 1914 AD. Well before. And you are correct on your assumption.

  Some of these fallen angels(Gen. 6:1-6) are no longer even on earth. See Jude 6 and 2 Pet. 2:4-10

  These are not the same as cast out with Satan. The angels that sinned in Genesis were cast out then. Thus, they could not enter again... so as to be cast out when Satan was. These were the ones who asked my Lord when he was on earth, "Are you here to abyss us now?" They were abyssed when my Lord sent them into the swine, who then went into the sea. Thus, Peter said, they were bound... reserved in Tartarus.

  When Satan was cast out, however, he was not abyssed, nor were his angels. He WILL be abyssed, upon my Lord's return. His angels, Magog, will not be abyssed... but will simply be destroyed at Har-Maggedon.

  Why would St. Peter say before 1914 that the Devil is already "prowling around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to eat. Stand up to him, strong in faith.?." (1 Pet. 5:8-9)

  Because Satan was/is neither in heaven nor abyssed when Peter wrote this. He (Satan) has been cast down to US... to the earth. Thus, woe... to the earth... and those upon it. But... rather than blame our "woe" on Satan... we blame God.

  Up until the redemption Satan was lord of this world (1John 5:19) but the death of Christ was a complete perfect victory over the Devil, his demons and sin. "It was to undo all that the Devil has done, that the Son of God appeared." (1John 3:8). This didn't have to wait until 1914. See also Matt. 12:27, 28

  Satan is STILL the ruler/lord over this world. He will be... until he is destroyed. As long as he can mislead... he rules. What was "undone" is that which he has done to those who belong to the Christ. To those who do not... they are still bound to him. He... is their "father" and "god".

  Moreover, Christ's death destroyed the power of Satan over men by making availabe to them the grace necessary for salvation and santification. John 12:31 See also St. Paul's explanation in Col. 1:9-14. Through his crucifixion Christ disarmed the demonic powers, the "principalities" and "authorities." (Col. 2:15) Likewise, angels, authorities, and powers are subdued to Christ long before 1914. (1 Pet. 3:22).

  For those who accept the VALUE of such death... yes: "Therefore, if the SON sets you FREE... you are truly free." If the Son has NOT set you free... you are still... bound.

  James 4:7 "Subject yourselves, therefore, to God; but oppose the Devil and he will flee from you." NWT

  Indeed.

  I bid you peace.

  A slave of Christ,

  SJ
• 

  garybuss

  
  
  Kenneson, You wrote;
  
  

  Garybuss,
  
  How would JWs respond to the following:

  You are logical and reasonable. That will not work with a Jehovah's Witness. Witnesses only accept the latest explanations of everything as printed in their literature and nothing has to make any sense in order to be accepted by them. Trying to reason with a Jehovah's Witness is like trying to reason with a drunk. Arguing with a Jehovah's Witness is like being in a pissing contest with a skunk. Even if you win, you still have that, just been pissed on, feeling. GaryB
  
  
  
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  Narkissos

  Perhaps the poor guy forgot to pay the rent (to the heavenlord)...