586/587 the K.I.S.S. approach --- no VAT4956, Ptolemy, Josephus needed

by Alleymom 147 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Alleymom
    Alleymom

    Ok, here's my "Keep It Simple, Sweetie" approach to 586/587 BCE. All you have to do is be able to count backwards.

    I'm fairly new to the board, so maybe this has been discussed before, but it seems to me that all the arguing about various interpretations of the 70 years is obscuring one simple fact:

    The names and regnal lengths of the Neo-Babylonian kings are known.

    If you start at 539 BCE for the fall of Babylon, a date which is accepted by the WTS and secular historians , and list the years of the kings in reverse order, it is very easy to see that Jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 BCE.


    There are only 5 Babylonian kings to deal with. It isn't hard. You don't need to bother with VAT 4956, Josephus, Ptolemy, Anstey, Bullinger, etc. etc. Just go by the actual kings, whose names and regnal lengths are known from tens of thousands of cuneiform tablets from many different towns and villages all over southern Mesopotamia. It is so simple a child could do it. Note: Perhaps you are thinking, "But does the WTS agree with the list of the kings and the lengths of their reigns?" The surprising answer is YES! I recently bought a Watchtower Library 2001 CD and found quotations from WTS articles and books which show that the WTS itself has agreed with secular historians regarding the names and lengths of reign of the 5 kings listed below.

    (There are also articles which try to dance around this, but the fact remains that in their own literature at various times they have agreed with the length of each king's reign. I will provide the quotations in my next post.)

    Just start with Nabonidus, the last Babylonian king, and work backward.

    Babylon falls to Cyrus the Persia -- 539 BCE
    Nabonidus -- 17 years
    Labashi-Marduk -- 3 months (WT says less than 9 months)
    Neriglissar -- 4 years
    Evil-Merodach -- 2 years
    Nebuchadnezzar -- 43 years

    Nabonidus -- 17 years

    Year 17 = 539 BCE
    16 = 540
    15 = 541
    14 = 542
    13 = 543
    12 = 544
    11 = 545
    10 = 546
    9 = 547
    8 = 548
    7 = 549
    6 = 550
    5 = 551
    4 = 552
    3 = 553
    2 = 554
    1 = 555
    0 = accession year = 556

    Labashi-Marduk -- less than a year 3 months in 556

    Neriglissar -- 4 years 4 = 556
    3 = 557
    2 = 558
    1 = 559
    0 = accession year = 560

    Evil-Merodach -- 2 years
    2 = 560
    1 = 561
    0 = accession year = 562

    Nebuchadnezzar -- 43 years
    43 = 562 BCE
    42 = 563
    41 = 564
    40 = 565
    39 = 566
    38 = 567
    37 = 568
    36 = 569
    35 = 570
    34 = 571
    33 = 572
    32 = 573
    31 = 574
    30 = 575
    29 = 576
    28 = 577
    27 = 578
    26 = 579
    25 = 580
    24 = 581
    23 = 582
    22 = 583
    21 = 584
    20 = 585 19 = 586 BCE
    18 = 587 BCE

    So Jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 BCE by Nebuchadnezzar.

    See the next post for quotations from WT literature which support the regnal lengths for each king listed above.

    Marjorie

    -- of the "Stuck-in-red-and-can't-turn-it-off" Class

  • Alleymom
    Alleymom

    ARGH! I messed up the formatting in this post and the last post, but I don't have time to keep fiddling with it.

    From WT literature, we have the kings of Babylon and the length of their reigns:

    Nebuchadnezzar -- 43 years
    Evil-Merodach -- 2 years
    Neriglissar -- 4 years
    Labashi-Marduk -- assassinated within 9 months
    Nabonidus -- 17 years

    This agrees with the thousands of cuneiform tablets which show:

    Nebuchadnezzar -- 43 years
    Evil-Merodach -- 2 years
    Neriglissar -- 4 years
    Labashi-Marduk -- 3 months
    Nabonidus -- 17 years

    Here are quotations from WT literature showing the lengths of each king's reign:

    Nebuchadnezzar -- 43 years

    *** it-2 p. 480 Nebuchadnezzar ***Nebuchadnezzar ruled as king for 43 years

    *** w00 5/15 p. 12 Pay Attention to God’s Prophetic Word for Our Day ***Learning that his father, Nabopolassar, had died, this young man named Nebuchadnezzar took the throne in 624 B.C.E. During his 43-year reign...

    *** w86 11/1 p. 5 A Dream Reveals How Late It Is ***Since Nebuchadnezzar reigned for 43 years (624-581 B.C.E.), this is a reasonable conclusion.

    *** dp chap. 7 p. 99 Four Words That Changed the World ***Proud King Nebuchadnezzar’s 43-year reign in Babylon ended with his death in 582 B.C.E.

    *** dp chap. 4 pp. 50-51 The Rise and Fall of an Immense Image *** 9 Nebuchadnezzar, who reigned for 43 years, headed a dynasty that ruled over the Babylonian Empire. It included his son-in-law Nabonidus and his oldest son, Evil-merodach. That dynasty continued for 43 more years, until the death of Nabonidus’ son Belshazzar, in 539 B.C.E

    *** it-1 pp. 238-239 Babylon ***Finally, after a 43-year reign, which included both conquest of many nations and a grand building program in Babylonia itself, Nebuchadnezzar II died in October of 582 B.C.E. and was succeeded by Awil-Marduk (Evil-merodach). This new ruler showed kindness to captive King Jehoiachin. (2Ki 25:27-30) Little is known about the reigns of Neriglissar, evidently the successor of Evil-merodach, and of Labashi-Marduk.

    Evil-Merodach --- 2 years

    *** w65 1/1 p. 29 The Rejoicing of the Wicked Is Short-lived *** Evil-merodach reigned two years and was murdered by his brother-in-law Neriglissar, who reigned for four years, which time he spent mainly in building operations. His underage son Labashi-Marduk, a vicious boy, succeeded him, and was assassinated within nine months. Nabonidus, who had served as governor of Babylon and who had been Nebuchadnezzar’s favorite son-in-law, took the throne and had a fairly glorious reign until Babylon fell in 539 B.C.E.

    *** it-1 p. 453 Chronology *** For Awil-Marduk (Evil-merodach, 2Ki 25:27, 28), tablets dated up to his second year of rule have been found. For Neriglissar, considered to be the successor of Awil-Marduk, contract tablets are known dated to his fourth year

    *** kc p. 186 Appendix to Chapter 14 ***Nabonidus Harran Stele (NABON H 1, B): This contemporary stele, or pillar with an inscription, was discovered in 1956. It mentions the reigns of the Neo-Babylonian kings Nebuchadnezzar, Evil-Merodach, Neriglissar. The figures given for these three agree with those from Ptolemy’s Canon.

    Neriglissar -- 4 years

    ***

    w65 1/1 p. 29 The Rejoicing of the Wicked Is Short-lived ***Evil-merodach reigned two years and was murdered by his brother-in-law
    Neriglissar, who reigned for four years, which time he spent mainly in building operations. His underage son Labashi-Marduk, a vicious boy, succeeded him, and was assassinated within nine months. Nabonidus, who had served as governor of Babylon and who had been Nebuchadnezzar’s favorite son-in-law, took the throne and had a fairly glorious reign until Babylon fell in 539 B.C.E.

    Labashi-Marduk -- less than a year

    *** dx30-85 Labashi-Marduk ***
    LABASHI-MARDUK
    king of Babylon: w65 29; bf 183-4

    *** w65 1/1 p. 29 The Rejoicing of the Wicked Is Short-lived
    ***
    Evil-merodach reigned two years and was murdered by his brother-in-law Neriglissar, who reigned for four years, which time he spent mainly in building operations. His underage son Labashi-Marduk, a vicious boy, succeeded him, and was assassinated within nine months . Nabonidus, who had served as governor of Babylon and who had been Nebuchadnezzar’s favorite son-in-law, took the throne and had a fairly glorious reign until Babylon fell in 539 B.C.E.

    Nabonidus -- 17 years

    *** it-2 p. 457 Nabonidus ***
    NABONIDUS
    (Nab·o·ni´dus) [from Babylonian meaning "Nebo [a Babylonian god] Is Exalted"].
    Last supreme monarch of the Babylonian Empire; father of Belshazzar. On
    the basis of cuneiform texts he is believed to have ruled some 17 years (556-539 B.C.E.).

    *** w68 8/15 p. 491 The Book of Truthful Historical Dates *** 17 Other investigators say this: "The Nabunaid Chronicle . . . states that Sippar fell to Persian forces VII/14/17* (Oct. 10, 539), that Babylon fell VII/16/17 (Oct. 12), and that Cyrus entered Babylon VIII/3/17 (Oct. 29). This fixes the end of Nabunaid’s reign and the beginning of the reign of Cyrus. Interestingly enough, the last tablet dated to Nabunaid from Uruk is dated the day after Babylon fell to Cyrus. News of its capture had not yet reached the southern city some 125 miles distant."—Brown University Studies, Vol. XIX, Babylonian Chronology 626 B.C.—A.D. 75, Parker and Dubberstein, 1956, p. 13. Footnote" VII/14/17 ": The 7th Hebrew month Tishri, 14th day, 17th year of Nabonidus’ reign.

    So there you have it.

    If you start with the WTS's own date of 539 for the fall of Babylon and count backwards through the Kings of Babylon for each year of their reigns, you arrive at 586/587 for Nebuchadnezzar's 18 th /19 th year, when he destroyed Jerusalem.

    I think the key quotation is the one from WT 1965 1/1 p. 29 , which shows Evil-merodach reigned two years, followed by Neriglissar, who reigned for four years, followed by Labashi-Marduk, who reigned less than 9 months, followed by Nabonidus.

    This is an important quotation because it shows the succession of the kings, with no room for an extra king in between, and it also agrees with the conventional chronology's regnal lengths.

    Using the WTS's own data for the neo-Babylonian kings and the lengths of their reigns, there is NO ROOM for an extra king or for an extra 20 years.

    If you start at 539, the WTS's own date, and count backward according to their own data regarding each king and his reign, you will arrive at 586/587 for Nebuchadnezzar's 18th/19th year, when he destroyed Jerusalem.

    I like this approach because it requires no specialized knowledge.

    Marjorie Alley

  • rocketman
    rocketman

    Veery interesting Alleymom, thanks.

    I must say, for a sec I thought the K.I.S.S method was going to involve large amounts of facial paint.

  • Alleymom
    Alleymom
    I must say, for a sec I thought the K.I.S.S method was going to involve large amounts of facial paint.

    I've spent too many years with teenagers. I actually understood that remark.

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Hi Alleymom,

    I must ask you the same question I asked in another thread.

    Why is the disproving of the 607 date so important? The fact that the Watchtower's prediction (one which of course they did not originate), was fulfilled and 1914 did turn out to be a significant year is what is important not the start dates. Whether or not the start dates can be proven, the success of their publicly predicting 1914 as a significant year is still noteworthy.

    All the juxtaposing of dates will not remove that fact.

    IW

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Good Lord IslandWoman, I'd know you really are insane, save for the fact that I think you're just taking the mickey.

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Hi Six,

    save for the fact that I think you're just taking the mickey.

    Hey, I'm a raised in the JW religion exJW, don't know what that means. Please enlighten me!

    IW

  • Earnest
    Earnest

    Thanks Alleymom. That is so elementary even I can understand it. No bothering about the meaning of Hebrew words, or different periods of seventy years, or how many deportations there were to Babylon.

    Kisses to you too,

    Earnest

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Still hoping for an answer to my question.

    IW

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Excellent post, AlleyMom! Trouble is, Watchtower inconsistently insinuates that there still must be some missing king or kings between Nebuchadnezzar and Nabonidus, or that the latter's reign was more than 17 years, or both. But they never really discuss such things, probably because they know that it would open a can of worms. "How do you know that there are extra years?" "Well, because we know that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607." Even a lot of braindead JWs would see through that.

    IslandWoman said:

    : Why is the disproving of the 607 date so important?

    Because it clobbers 1914 as a "significant date in Bible prophecy" and as a result, clobbers the claim of JW leaders to have been appointed "over all Christ's belongings" in 1919. In other words, it proves that they're false teachers, and therefore the very "false prophets" that Jesus said to avoid -- Luke 21:8, etc.

    : The fact that the Watchtower's prediction (one which of course they did not originate), was fulfilled and 1914 did turn out to be a significant year is what is important not the start dates. Whether or not the start dates can be proven, the success of their publicly predicting 1914 as a significant year is still noteworthy.

    Not in the least. The fact is that nothing that the Watchtower predicted would happen in 1914 happened. What we call "World War I" occurred, but the Society certainly didn't predict it. Beginning in 1904, they predicted that the breakup of all earthly kingdoms would begin in 1914, and that sure didn't happen. And of course, everything else they predicted didn't even have the accidental coincidence of having a major war start that they could pretend was a fulfillment of their predictions.

    For an extensive list of their unfulfilled predictions, see the links: http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/pro2.htm#russell and http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/end5.htm#what and the rest of the essays that these are part of.

    Today the Watchtower likes to pretend that they predicted great things for 1914 and that almost all of their predictions came true. The opposite is the case, as a careful reading of pre-1915 Watchtower literature (quoted extensively in the above-referenced links) proves.

    AlanF

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