The Watchtower Society is confused over its “Seventy Years” and "Seven Times"

by Doug Mason 27 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    Until now, the Watch Tower Society [WTS] has argued that the “70 years” was a period during which Judah was totally and completely depopulated. For this reason, it constantly argued that the period commenced when the Jews left Judah and entered Egypt. The following comes from the recent October 1, 2011 Watchtower magazine:

    “When did the land of Judah become desolated and unworked? … A Jewish revolt brought the Babylonians back to Jerusalem. (2 Kings 24:20; 25:8-10) They razed the city, including its sacred temple, and they took many of its inhabitants captive to Babylon. Within two months, “all the people [who had been left behind in the land] from the least to the greatest, together with the army officers, fled to Egypt for fear of the Babylonians.” (2 Kings 25:25, 26, NIV) Only then, in the seventh Jewish month, Tishri (September/October), of that year could it be said that the land, now desolate and unworked, began to enjoy its Sabbath rest. To the Jewish refugees in Egypt, God said through Jeremiah: “You have seen all the disaster that I brought upon Jerusalem and upon all the cities of Judah. Behold, this day they are a desolation, and no one dwells in them.” (Jeremiah 44:1, 2, English Standard Version) So this event evidently marked the starting point of the 70 years.” (The Watchtower, October 1, 2011, page 27)

    Jerusalem was destroyed in the fifth month (Jeremiah 1:3; 52:12). Interestingly, the above passage from the magazine failed to include 2 Kings 25:3, which mentions that Jerusalem was broken into in the fourth month.

    The WTS has always pointed to the seventh month (Tishri/October) as the starting point of its 70 years, given that it always started the period two months after Jerusalem was destroyed, relating this to the Jews’ exodus into Egypt. They have constantly said that this exodus into Egypt took place 2 months after Jerusalem was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar. This is incorrect, as the two events are separated by at least 2 years, and possibly by 4 years.

    (see my Study at: http://www.jwstudies.com/Did_Jews_exit_after_two_months.pdf)

    Nevertheless, in its more recent publications, the WTS has thrown all of its arguments into confusion, saying that the “seven times” began when Jerusalem was destroyed.

    “Jerusalem was destroyed in the year 607 B.C.E. That was the start of the ‘seven times.’” (“What Can the Bible Teach Us?”, page 217)

    Jerusalem was destroyed in the fifth month (two months before October/Tishri). Or is the WTS starting the “seven times” of Daniel two months before the “70 years” of Jeremiah? Does Daniel at Chapter 9 say that this separation of the “seven times” from the “seventy years” was his “understanding of Jeremiah’s letter?

    The WTS is absolutely incorrect when it says that Jerusalem fell in the seventh month:

    “The 2,520 years began in October 607 B.C.E., when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians and the Davidic king was taken off his throne.” (“What Does the bible Really Teach?”, page 217)

    The diagram at page 216 of “What Does the Bible Really Teach?” shows Jerusalem being destroyed in the seventh month. That contradicts the Biblical account.

    Maybe the Bible does “really teach” something.

    A dose of confusion over the subject that is absolutely fundamentally significant to the WTS’s existence.

    Doug

  • prologos
    prologos

    What Can the Bible Teach Us?”, page 217) are you already using the simplified 'bible teach'version?

    BSW Acts 1:7.

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman

    DM, Thanks for your exciting and interesting commentary. It is late now and I will have to look up the BIble verses later on.

    Here is what the WT has always taught about the destruction of Jerusalem back in the time of the prophets: Jerusalem was invaded two times. The first time it was invaded resulted in Zedekiah being installed as a vassal king. Because king Zedekiah rebelled against Babylon, the king of Babylon invaded Jerusalem a second time and this time the king of Babylon destroyed the temple ((jewish tradition holds that 1st and 2nd temple were destroyed in the month of Av) However, the WT has always taught that Gedaliah was left in Judah as governor after the destruction of the first temple. He was later assassinated by Ismael, resulting in the Babylonians disassembling the Jewish presence in Judah that Babylon allowed at that time. It was then that the 70 year desolation began and not in the 9th of Av.

    How does this correspond with your commentary?

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    Fisherman,

    Broadly speaking, that is my understanding of what the WTS's position has been for quite some time: Jerusalem destroyed in the 5th month, then Gedaliah set up as governor; he is murdered; the last Jews living in Judah enter Egypt two months after Jerusalem's destruction. This exodus therefore occurs in the 7th month, which corresponds with October. When those Jews enter Egypt, the WTS starts its "seventy years" and its "seven times".

    This is the methodology described in the October 1, 2011 Watchtower magazine.

    These recent books I cited incorrectly state that Jerusalem was destroyed in the 7th month (October) and they contradict the previously held position by now stating that their time periods begin when Jerusalem was destroyed.

    They do not know basis of their own foundation doctrine.

    Doug

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    Prologos,

    I quote:

    “The 2,520 years began in October 607 B.C.E., when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians”. -- “What Does the Bible Really Teach?”, page 217

    “Jerusalem was destroyed in the year 607 B.C.E. That was the start of the “seven times.” (2 Kings 25:1, 8-10; Ezekiel 21:25-27)” -- “What Can The Bible Teach Us?”, page 217

    Doug

  • prologos
    prologos

    "Babylonians”.---- -- “What Does the Bible Really Teach?”, page 217"

    "Ezekiel 21:25-27)” -- “What Can The Bible Teach Us?”, page 217 " ( released Saturday Oct. 3, 2015}

    Doug, the last quote is the title of the new wt book release, just yesterday. You are a fast learner, and what you present is great, but beyond my ken to understand. hence Acts 1:7. classed under humour.

  • Greener
    Greener

    Interesting take on the JW month calculation being wrong for the beginning of the 70 years. There are broader issues here with the 7 times and when they began that they've gotten horribly wrong, that have greater implications for the basis and foundations of everything they believe.

    What about the year? There is no archeological evidence for the 607 BCE date. 586/587 is the correct year. This has been debated on this site over and over again. But you have done research on this as well haven't you? What about the entire 2520 year reach that the Society has made? The 1914 date was originally contrived by Russell with measurements of the Great Pyramid in Giza Egypt. Once the Pyramid was discredited etc, the WTS had to find something in the Bible to fit their 1914 date. The classic making the Bible fit into their flawed belief here, rather than letting the scriptures explain themselves. Isn't that what they have been saying lately regarding the whole types and anti-type beliefs?

    So its almost like a can't see the forest for the trees scenario here. I'm curious about what you actually believe about all of this, other than the month for the start of the 70 years. What about the date and the entire Society interpretation of this.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Verrry Interesting......

    In support of what Doug has said, I give you. Insight "Calendar"

    5th AB July—August
    Summer Fruits
    6th ELUL August—September
    Dates, Grapes, Figs
    7th TISHRI (ETHANIM) September—October
    Jeremiah 52.12
    In the fifth month, on the tenth day of the month, that is, in the 19th year of King Neb·u·chad·nez′zar* the king of Babylon, Neb·u′zar·ad′an the chief of the guard, who was an attendant of the king of Babylon, came into Jerusalem.+ 13 He burned down the house of Jehovah,

    What Does The Bible Really Teach (Appendix..1914..etc)
    The 2,520 years began in October 607 B.C.E., when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians and the Davidic king was taken off his throne. The period ended in October 1914. At that time, “the appointed times of the nations” ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God’s heavenly King

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    Greener,

    There are so many issues related to this subject! Some I cover with Studies at: http://www.jwstudies.com/babylonian_captivity.html

    Regarding Russell, he had two fulfilments with 1914.

    (1) The "7 times punishment" of the Jews as predicted at Leviticus 26

    (2) The "7 times" madness of the gentile nations, as predicted by Nebuchadnezzar's dream experience (Daniel 4) - the king of Babylon symbolised the mad state of the Gentiles whereas today the WTS says Nebuchadnezzar symbolises God's kingdom(!)

    As a consequence, he expected that 1914 would see the end of gentile dominance and the restoration of the Jews to supreme dominance. Hence the organisation was "Zion's Watch Tower", meaning Zionism, literally. He gave several major speeches to Zionists, telling them they did not need to be converted to Christianity.

    Doug

  • Greener
    Greener

    Interesting. I do have the complete set of Russells Studies in the Scriptures and the Divine Plan of the Ages.

    Heres a passage in Volume 3 regarding the Great Pyramid and various measurements of its interior, and its significance with the 1914 AD date:

    "So, then, if we measure backward down the "First Ascending Passage" to its junction with the "Entrance Passage," we shall have a fixed date to mark upon the downward passage. This measure is 1542 inches, and indicates the year BC 1542, as the date at that point. Then measuring down the "Entrance Passage" from that point, to find the distance to the entrance of the "Pit," representing the great trouble and destruction with which this age is to close, when evil will be overthrown from power, we find it to be 3457 inches, symbolizing 3457 years from the above date, BC 1542. This calculation shows AD. 1915 as marking the beginning of the period of trouble; for 1542 years BC plus 1915 years AD. equals 3457 years. Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1914 will be the beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation -- no, nor ever shall be afterward. And thus it will be noted that this "Witness" fully corroborates the' Bible testimony on this subject..."

    Studies In The Scriptures, vol. 3 by Charles Taze Russell, copyright 1891

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