"JW's..Courageous in the Face of Nazi Peri...

by MacHislopp 13 Replies latest jw friends

  • Room 215
    Room 215

    Old Hippie,

    So you fail to see that Rutherford was pandering to Nazi anti-Jewish/anti-American sentiment? And does history support his view that the Anglo-American dual world power was/is ''the most oppressive on earth?" I suppose that includes the Judge's opinion of the U.S. Constitution which WTBTS lawyers have draped over themselves on innumerable occasions in defense of their freedoms to proselytize and to refuse flag salute/military consription?

    How you can bring yourself to become an apologist for Rutherford on this issue is incomprehensible to me.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Eaton Haines writes:

    This is one of my pet topics, as my views differ from most religions who insist their faith, their religion is more important than all others. This issue of asserting greater eminence than others is wrong which was a constant source of annoyance for Jesus when his disciples haggled over the same issue.

    Luke found an interesting lesson Jesus gave to squash this huge issue, when dominant power crazed control freaks, just like Joseph Rutherford come along who will fight to the death over their obsession to dominate others. This has been an ongoing problem throughout history so has been no less common in the history of Christianity when murders have been committed by religious leaders, and all for the sake of money and power. Isn’t that what the Spanish, French and Italian Inquisitions were all about? Anyone who questioned Church authority, such as Galileo, or the Waldenses were crushed.

    The same is true of any who speak out against ideologies that are wrong, regardless of the merits or strength of the argument, such as Martin Luther, who opposed the Church charging for indulgences, for relatives to be released from purgatory. Martin Luther pointed out the Bible disapproves of religious leaders gouging unjust profits, yet coincidentally, those controlling revenues of the treasury collecting tithes, indulgences and tributes, also used those revenues to finance wars by raising armies and build navies, are the same who burnt opposers at the stake, for daring to challenge their authority. The same thing happens today when social media cancels any and all opposing their narrative of manmade climate change.

    That ego centric driver is one of the worst flaws the human condition, Luke realized he ought to include in his gospel, from the records he used to draw against of Jesus’ words to propound this vital aspect of what Christianity is really about, why it is not about appeasing testosterone fueled ambitions of tyrants. That is a pretty big problem in society, so Jesus dealt with it, not once but several times, when bullies threaten others with words and their authority, which with him, they do not possess so Jesus took hold of a child, as a fire extinguisher, when this monster raised it’s ugly head amongst his happened.

    Luke 9:46-50; . . .Then a reasoning entered among them as to who would be the greatest of them. Jesus, knowing the reasoning of their hearts, took a young child, set it beside him and said to them: “Whoever receives this young child on the basis of my name receives me [too], and whoever receives me receives him [also] that sent me forth. For he that conducts himself as a lesser one among all of YOU is the one that is great.” In response John said: “Instructor, we saw a certain man expelling demons by the use of your name and we tried to prevent him, because he is not following with us.” But Jesus said to him: “Do not YOU men try to prevent [him], for he that is not against YOU is for YOU.”

    The point?

    If it’s okay to allow others to take the lead because the bully doesn’t want to share power, then it is likewise okay for others who are not members of this exclusive club of Jesus’ disciples, to show some initiative as his supporter, because as soon as Jesus took the action of using a youngster to teach why and how it is more important to be child-like, (not childish) to the point it occurred to John to ask. What about that man who was expelling demons by means of Jesus’ name? John with his other friends as Jesus’ disciples mistook loyalty to Jesus with tyrannical conduct when they tried to prevent him.’ In reply Jesus could have shaken John’s hand for getting the point by responding by the way he did, not just to John but to those disciples contending with each other. This issue was addressed on another occasion at Matthew 20:20, so Jesus gave this command: “Do not YOU men try to prevent [him], for he that is not against YOU is for YOU.”

    How is it Okay to oppose a fellow Christian just over a minor issue of beliefs? It is neither loving nor Christian, so that obsession with control is totally unreasonable.

    Just because the International Bible Students recognized Joseph Rutherford for the autocrat and despot that he proved to be during the Great Depression in the 1930s, yet he had no problem financing the construction of the Messerschmitt 109 when Hitler required funding for Willie Messerschmitt’s fighter. Just because the Bible Students refused to be party to Rutherford’s bias toward the NAZI war effort, didn’t make them evil or wicked, when their only sin was expose Rutherford for what he really was.

    While the American brothers were suffering from the Great Depression, he was buying new cars every year, sporting brand new suits, bright red bow ties, he was investing the brother’s hard earnt donations to Hitler and when Hitler double crossed him by refusing to repay the extortionate interest rates Rutherford charged, Rutherford retaliated. He published damaging material against Adolf Hitler and imposed the neutrality doctrine, with devastating consequences for the brothers in NAZI Germany!

    Rutherford imagined his playing the same game with Hitler as the Catholic Church did over the 30-years' war in Europe, then Rutherford couldn’t learn from history. He ought to have taken a leaf out of their book when even Catholic Church, realized resisting Hitler would come with a very high tab, which even the Catholic Church knew they couldn’t afford to cash, by signing a treaty with Hitler’s NAZI Germany.

    The Bible Student’s refusal to condone Rutherford’s exceptionally bad behaviour was to their credit. They were more Christian than Rutherford as it proved when they did not return evil for evil. Mercy triumphs over judgement. The followers of Rutherford pursued vitriol to such as extraordinary degree yet on closer examination now that the dust has settled, exposed Rutherford’s hypocrisy in attacking the mainstream Churches, especially the Catholic Faith over past mistakes, but Rutherford in secret, did the very same things, when he funded Hitler’s war machine, financing the construction of weapons used to murder innocent civilians, no less than the holocaust in Poland to create living space for Germans with the invasion of Poland was intended and funded, from Rutherford’s investments he sought to benefit. There is nothing Christian about that. For me it was better the Bible Students rejected him.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Eaton continues

    There is reason to believe Rutherford knew Hitler personally. They knew each other but when Rutherford tried charging his Government the same interest rates the bankers Hitler had executed were charging, that was the end of their friendship.

    When I was young, I listened to President J.F. Rutherford’s Gramaphone records and thought he was Okay. Now I know the truth about his mutiny and how he seized control of the house of the anointed ones, so now I believe the holy ones must be restored to their proper place and kick the rats out of Toad Hall. Their holy estate needs to be restored but sadly it is impossible to save what remains.

    When I went through all of what happened at the Australian Royal Commission into Jehovah’s Witness after Justice Angus Stewart reconvened the Royal Commission just into JWs after the Australian Federal Police raided the headquarters in Denim Court, and 1,200 files were discovered the legal department covered up, we now know the organization cannot be saved. I was so angry. I want to mount a rescue mission to put boats to sea so as to salvage as many as possible from that sinking organization. There are thousands upon thousands of cases that have been covered up in Canada, the USA, UK and on and on it goes. There are not enough assets to salvage anything. That rotten brood have ruined the whole thing. Br. Raymond Franz was absolutely right.

    There was so much wrong with the way Rutherford and Norr ran the organization. Their successors are actually far worse than Rutherford. At least Rutherford and Norr would not have allowed repeat child sex- offenders to keep reoffending. That is why the damages are so catastrophic. Those idiots covered-up what they were doing by protecting them and thus exposed tens of thousands of families to those abusers by labelling them as ‘former child sex offenders.’

    Wow!!! How evil is that. Instead of removing them, those sick so n soes carried on as if it was business as usual. Totally wrong. There is no way any righteously inclined person could endure that. I can’t and won’t. They have to go. They are standing in a holy place where they ought not.



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  • SydBarrett
    SydBarrett

    "There is reason to believe Rutherford knew Hitler personally."

    Why is there any reason to believe that? For example, right around the time Hitler became Chancellor, Winston Churchill happened to be visiting Germany. Churchill was interested to meet this new leader who had been in the news so much lately. A dinner meeting was arranged, but at the last minute Hitler decided not to bother.

    If Hitler couldn't be bothered to meet Churchill who although not PM yet, was a well known MP, had been Lord of the Admiralty and was a member of the British aristocracy, then why in the world would he care to meet some country bumpkin leader of a barely known American sect of cranks?

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