This is a very good Thread for Discussion!
Thank You for Posting it!
I also read your comments on the other Thread.
First of all, let me just explain what my personal beliefs are about the Trinity:
"Trinity" is just a word used to describe the belief in the Three Co-Equal, Co-Eternal Persons in Unity who hold the ONE Position, Nature, Being, and Essence of Almighty God YAHWEH.
Trinity = Three-In-Unity.
Every Christian who believes in the Trinity that I have known of, has believed that JESUS CHRIST, GOD THE SON, took on HUMAN FLESH, and He became 100% HUMAN and He also remained 100% SUPREME BEING -- in other words, He had a DUAL-NATURE of being Fully GOD and Fully MAN.
Also, the Son is in subjection to the Will of the Father.
That is also what I believe, based entirely on what I have read from the Scriptures.
Also, I know that there are MANY so-called "gods" and "mighty ones".
I also know that "God" is a TITLE, and that just because someone is called "God" does not mean they are the SUPREME BEING.
However, Jesus being called "God" in the Bible is not the main reason why I believe that He is the SUPREME BEING.
YAHWEH/JEHOVAH (YHWH) THE SUPREME BEING said that He would NOT give HIS GLORY to ANYONE ELSE:
Isaiah 42:8: I am Jehovah; that is My Name; and I will not give My Glory to another
JESUS CHRIST said that EVERYONE should HONOR THE SON THE SAME AS THEY HONOR THE FATHER!
John 5:16: And because of this, the Jews persecuted Jesus and lusted to kill Him, because He did these things on a Sabbath.
John 5:17: But Jesus answered them, My Father works until now, and I work.
John 5:18: Because of this, therefore, the Jews lusted the more to kill Him, for not only did He break the Sabbath, but also called God His own Father, making Himself equal to God.
John 5:19: Then Jesus answered and said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, The Son is not able to do anything from Himself, except what He may see the Father doing; for whatever that One does, these things also the Son does likewise.
John 5:20: For the Father loves the Son and shows to Him all things which He does. And He will show Him greater works than these in order that you may marvel.
John 5:21: For even as the Father raises the dead, and gives life, so also the Son gives life to whomever He wills.
John 5:22: For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son,
John 5:23: so that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. The one not honoring the Son does not honor the Father who has sent Him.
John 5:24: Truly, truly, I say to you, The one who hears My Word, and believes the One who has sent Me, has everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 5:25: Truly, truly, I say to you that an hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and the ones hearing will live.
John 5:26: For even as the Father has life in Himself, so He gave also to the Son to have life in Himself.
John 5:27: And He also gave authority to Him to execute judgment, for He is the Son of Man.
John 5:28: Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in the tombs will hear His voice.
John 5:29: And they will come out, the ones having done good into a resurrection of life; and the ones having practiced evil into a resurrection of judgment.
John 5:30: I am able to do nothing from Myself; just as I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, for I do not seek My will, but the will of the One sending Me, the Father.
Remember the Scripture above said that YAHWEH/JEHOVAH would NOT give HIS GLORY to ANYONE ELSE:
Matthew 19:28: And Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you, You who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His Glory, you also will sit on twelve thrones, judging the Twelve Tribes of Israel.
Matthew 16:27: For the Son of Man is about to Come with His angels in the Glory of His Father. And then "He will give reward to each according to his practice." (See LXX-Psalm 61:13 and Proverbs 24:12 and MT-Psalm 62:12)
Matthew 24:30: And then the Sign of the Son of Man will appear in the Heavens. And then all the tribes of the land will wail. And they will see the Son of Man Coming on the clouds of Heaven with power and much Glory. (See Daniel 7:13)
Matthew 25:31: But when the Son of Man Comes in His Glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His Glory.
Luke 24:26: Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things, and to enter into His Glory?
John 1:14: And the Word became Flesh and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His Glory, Glory as of an Only Begotten from the Father, full of grace and of truth.
John 2:11: This beginning of the miraculous signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee. And it revealed His Glory, and His Disciples believed into Him.
John 8:54: Jesus answered, If I glorify Myself, My Glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, whom you say is your God.
John 17:5: And now Father, glorify Me with Yourself, with the Glory which I had with You before the existence of the world.
Acts 4:10: let it be known to all of you, and to all the people of Israel, that in the Name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, in this Name this one stands before you whole.
Acts 4:11: This One is the Stone counted worthless by you the builders, the One who has come to be into the Head of the Corner; (See Psalm 118:22)
Acts 4:12: and there is salvation in no other one, for neither is there any other name under Heaven having been given among men by which we must be saved.
2nd Peter 3:18: But grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. To Him be the Glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
Prayers are supposed to be directed to THE SUPREME BEING. Humans are supposed to commit their spirits to THE SUPREME BEING:
Psalm 31:5: Into Your hand I commit My spirit; You have redeemed Me, O Jehovah, God of Truth.
Jesus Christ was PRAYED TO, and Christians committed their spirits to JESUS:
Acts 7:55: But being full of the Holy Spirit, looking intently into the Heaven, he saw the Glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right of God.
Acts 7:56: And he said, Behold, I see the Heavens having been opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right of God!
Acts 7:57: And crying out with a loud voice, they held their ears and rushed on him with one passion.
Acts 7:58: And throwing him outside the city, they stoned him. And the witnesses put off their garments at the feet of a young man called Saul.
Acts 7:59: And they stoned Stephen, invoking and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Acts 7:60: And placing the knees, he cried out with a loud voice, Lord, do not make stand this sin to them. And having said this, he fell asleep.
2nd Corinthians 12:8: Beyond this I entreated the Lord three times, that it depart from me.
2nd Corinthians 12:9: And He said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness. Therefore, I will rather gladly boast in my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may overshadow me.
2nd Corinthians 12:10: Because of this, I am pleased in weaknesses, in insults, in dire needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for the sake of Christ. For when I may be weak, then I am powerful.
Revelation 22:20: The One testifying these things says, Yes, I am Coming quickly. Amen. Yes, Come, Lord Jesus!
Revelation 22:21: The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with all of you. Amen.
Acts 2:21: "And it shall be that everyone who shall call on the Name of the Lord will be saved."
Acts 9:14: And here he has authority from the Chief Priests to bind all the ones calling on Your Name.
Acts 9:21: And all those hearing were amazed and said, Is this not the one destroying those who have called on this Name in Jerusalem, and he had come here for this, that binding them he might lead them before the Chief Priests?
Acts 22:16: And now what do you intend? Rising up, be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the Name of the Lord.
1st Corinthians 1:2: to the Assembly of God which is in Corinth, those having been sanctified in Christ Jesus, called-out Saints, with all those calling on the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place, both theirs and ours
1st Timothy 1:12: And I have thanks to Him empowering me, our Lord Jesus Christ, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the Ministry
YAHWEH THE SUPREME BEING says that HE IS THE ONE who searches people's hearts and minds:
Jeremiah 17:10: I, Jehovah, search the heart, I try the reins, even to give to each man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings.
Psalm 139:23: Search me, O God, and know my heart; try me, and know my thoughts
Jesus Christ is THE ONE who searches the hearts and minds of people:
Revelation 2:23: ....and all the assemblies will know that I (Jesus) am the One searching the inner parts and hearts. And I will give to each of you according to your works.
Acts 1:24: And having prayed, they said, You, Lord, Knower of all hearts, show which one You chose from these two,
Acts 1:25: to take the share of this Ministry and Apostleship, from which Judas fell, to go to his own place.
Acts 1:26: And they gave their lots. And the lot fell on Matthias; and he was numbered with the Eleven Apostles.
In the Bible, YAHWEH THE SUPREME BEING says that HE IS THE ONLY ONE who is to be WORSHIPPED!
Also, in the Bible, the HOLY ANGELS and CHRISTIANS always refused WORSHIP and "OBEISANCE" that was given to them:
Exodus 20:2: I am Jehovah your God, who has brought you out from the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Exodus 20:3: You shall not have any other gods before Me.
Deuteronomy 6:13: You shall fear Jehovah your God, and you shall serve Him, and you shall swear by His name.
Deuteronomy 6:14: You shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the peoples who are around you,
Deuteronomy 6:15: for Jehovah your God is a jealous God in your midst, lest the anger of Jehovah your God burn against you, and He destroy you from off the face of the Earth.
Matthew 4:10: Then Jesus said to him, Go, Satan! For it has been written: "You shall worship the Lord your God, and you shall serve Him only."
Acts 10:25: And as Peter was coming in, meeting him, Cornelius fell at his feet and worshiped.(or according the Watchtower's "Bible", Cornelius "did obeisance to Peter")
Acts 10:26: But Peter lifted him up, saying, Stand up! I myself am also a man.
Colossians 2:18: Let no one condemn you, delighting in humility and worship of the angels, pushing into things which he has not seen, being puffed up by the mind of his flesh without cause
Revelation 19:10: And I fell before his feet to worship him, but he said to me, Behold! Stop! I am a fellow-slave of yours, and of your Brothers, having the Testimony of Jesus. Worship God. For the Testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Revelation 22:8: And I, John, was the one seeing and hearing these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel showing me these things.
Revelation 22:9: And he said to me, Behold! Stop! For I am your fellow-slave, and of your Brothers the Prophets, and of the ones keeping the Words of this Book. Do worship to God.
Jesus Christ NEVER REFUSED WORSHIP and "OBEISANCE"!
Hebrews 1:6: And again, when He brought the First-Born into the world, He said, "And let all the angels of God worship Him."(Even the older New World Translation Bibles say "Worship" in this Scripture instead of "Obeisance".)
Matthew 2:1: And when Jesus had been born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men arrived from the east to Jerusalem,
Matthew 2:2: saying, Where is He born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.
Matthew 2:11: And having come into the house, they saw the Child with His mother Mary. And falling down, they worshiped Him. And opening their treasures, they presented gifts to Him: gold and frankincense and myrrh.(The Watchtower's own "My Book of Bible Stories" says that the "Wise Men" WORSHIPED JESUS!)
Joshua 5:13: And it happened, when Joshua was beside Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked. And, behold! A Man stood in front of him, and His drawn sword was in His hand. And Joshua went to Him and said to Him, Are You for us, or for our foes?
Joshua 5:14: And He said, No, for I now come as the Commander of the Army of Jehovah. And Joshua fell on his face to the Earth and worshiped. And he said to Him, What does my Lord speak to His slave?
Joshua 5:15: And the Commander of the Army of Jehovah said to Joshua, Take your shoe off your foot, for the place on which you are standing is Holy. And Joshua did so.
Joshua 6:1: And Jericho was closed, and was shut in from the face of the sons of Israel; no one going out, and no one coming in.
Joshua 6:2: And Jehovah said to Joshua, See I have given Jericho and its king, mighty warriors, into your hand.
Psalm 45:11: And the King will desire your beauty, for He is your Lord, and you shall worship Him.
Psalm 45:17: I will make remembered Your Name in every generation and generation; on this account people shall thank You forever and ever.
Matthew 14:25: But in the fourth watch of the night, Jesus went out to them, walking on the sea.
Matthew 14:26: And seeing Him walking on the sea, the Disciples were troubled, saying, It is a phantom! And they cried out from the fear.
Matthew 14:27: But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, Be comforted! I AM! Do not fear.
Mat 14:28 And answering Him, Peter said, Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the waters.
Matthew 14:29: And He said, Come! And going down from the boat, Peter walked on the waters to go to Jesus.
Matthew 14:30: But seeing the wind strong, he was afraid, and beginning to sink, he cried out, saying, Lord, save me!
Matthew 14:31: And immediately stretching out the hand, Jesus took hold of him, and said to him, Little-Faith, why did you doubt?
Matthew 14:32: And coming into the boat, the wind ceased.
Matthew 14:33: And those in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, Truly, You are the Son of God.
Revelation 5:8: And when He took the Scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one having harps, and golden bowls full of incenses, which are the prayers of the Saints.
Revelation 5:9: And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy are You to receive the Scroll, and to open its Seals, because You were slain, and by Your Blood purchased us to God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
Revelation 5:10: and made us kings and priests to our God; and we shall reign over the Earth.
Revelation 5:11: And I saw, and I heard a sound of many angels around the throne, and the living creatures, and the elders, and their number was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands,
Revelation 5:12: saying with a great voice, Worthy is the Lamb having been slain to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.
Revelation 5:13: And every creature which is in Heaven, and in the Earth, and underneath the Earth, and the things that are on the sea, and the things in all of them, I heard saying: To Him sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever.
Revelation 5:14: And the four living creatures said, Amen. And the twenty four elders fell down and worshiped the One living forever and ever.
WHO is the "Rock of Offense" and the "Stone of Stumbling"?
Isaiah 8:13: Yahweh of Hosts, Him shall you sanctify; and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread.
Isaiah 8:14: He shall be for a Sanctuary; but for a Stone of Stumbling and for a Rock of Offense to both the houses of Israel, for a Gin and for a Snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
1st Peter 2:6: Because it is contained in Scripture, "Behold, I lay in Zion a Chief Cornerstone, Elect, Precious: He who believes in Him will not be disappointed."
1st Peter 2:7: For you therefore who believe is the honor, but for such as are disobedient, "The Stone which the builders rejected, Has become the Chief Cornerstone,"
1st Peter 2:8: and, "A Stone of Stumbling, and a Rock of Offense." For they stumble at the Word, being disobedient, whereunto also they were appointed.
ALL THINGS WERE CREATED FOR JESUS AND BY JESUS:
Colossians 1:16: For by Him were all things created, in the Heavens and on the Earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through Him, and for Him.
Colossians 1:17: He is before all things, and in Him all things are held together.
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I hope I did not "spam Scriptures".
Also, I am curious, who and what do you believe that Jesus Christ is?
Same question for the Holy Spirit.
I would love to see your comments on those Scriptures above.
The Bible clearly shows that it is IDOLATRY to worship anyone or thing other than THE SUPREME BEING.
The Bible clearly shows that Jesus Christ was worshipped.
The Father even commands His angels to worship Jesus!
Jesus said that everyone should honor the Son just as they honor the Father.
To me, from what I have read in the Scriptures, Jesus Christ is 100% MAN and 100% SUPREME BEING.
The Father is my God, my Lord, my Savior, my King!
Jesus Christ is my God, my Lord, my Savior, my King, my Redeemer, and my Mediator!
The Holy Spirit is my God, my Lord, my Comforter, my Helper!
Not three gods but Three Persons in Unity as ONE GOD.
I would love to discuss this further with you, and I really do try to have a very open mind about the Scriptures, I am trying to be like the Noble Beroeans.
In Christ, I send my Christian love to you!
