JESUS CHRIST -- I AM WHO I AM

by UnDisfellowshipped 29 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  UnDisfellowshipped

  (Exodus 3:13) And Moses said to God, Behold, when I come to the children of Israel, and shall say to them, The God of YOUR fathers has sent me to YOU; and they shall say to me, What is His Name? what shall I say to them?
  (Exodus 3:14) And God said to Moses, I AM WHO I AM: and He said, Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to YOU.
  (Exodus 3:15) And God said moreover to Moses, Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, Jehovah the God of YOUR fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to YOU: this is My Name forever, and this is My Memorial to all generations.

  (John 8:24) I said therefore to YOU, that YOU shall die in YOUR sins: for if YOU do not believe that I AM, YOU shall die in YOUR sins.

  (John 8:28) Then Jesus said to them, When YOU have lifted up the Son of Man, then YOU shall know that I AM, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father has taught Me, I speak these things.

  (John 8:53) Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? and the Prophets are dead: who do you make Yourself?
  (John 8:54) Jesus answered, If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing: it is My Father who honors Me; of whom YOU say, that He is YOUR God:
  (John 8:55) Yet YOU have not known Him; but I know Him: and if I should say, I do not know Him, I shall be a liar like YOU: but I know Him, and keep His Saying.
  (John 8:56) Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad.
  (John 8:57) Then the Jews said to Him, You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?
  (John 8:58) Jesus said to them, Truly, Truly, I say to YOU, Before Abraham was, I AM.
  (John 8:59) Then they took up stones to cast at Him: but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the Temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

  (Mark 14:61) But He held His peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked Him, and said to Him, Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
  (Mark 14:62) And Jesus said, I AM: and YOU shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of Power, and coming in the clouds of Heaven.
  (Mark 14:63) Then the high priest tore his clothes, and said, What need do we have for any further witnesses?
  (Mark 14:64) YOU have heard the blasphemy: what do YOU think? And they all condemned Him to be guilty of death.

  (John 9:9) Some said, This is He: others said, He is like Him: but He said, I AM.

  (John 13:19) Now I tell you before it comes, that, when it is comes to pass, YOU may believe that I AM.

  (John 18:3) Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, comes near with lanterns and torches and weapons.
  (John 18:4) Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon Him, went forth, and said to them, Who do YOU seek?
  (John 18:5) They answered Him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus said to them, I AM. And Judas also, which betrayed Him, stood with them.
  (John 18:6) As soon then as He had said to them, I AM, they went backwards, and fell to the ground.
  (John 18:7) Then He asked them again, Who do YOU seek? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.
  (John 18:8) Jesus answered, I have told you that I AM: if therefore YOU seek Me, let these go their way:
  (John 18:9) That the saying might be fulfilled, which He spoke, Of those which You gave Me I have lost none.

  Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 29 August 2002 21:52:15
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  JosephMalik

  Undisfellowshipped,

  This was a waste of time. It all means nothing. The words used are self explanatory. Each verse must be understood in its own setting and not word matched as if the same thing was meant in all of them. Such words are also translation dependent and useless for the purpose of identification.

  Joseph

  Edited by - JosephMalik on 29 August 2002 9:0:32
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  Hi JosephMalik,

  I agree that the Isaiah Scriptures which I had up on Post (I have since edited them out), did not have anything to do with the others probably.

  However, I do believe that there is a definite connection between the Exodus "I AM WHO I AM" Name and the "I AM" Name for Jesus Christ in the Gospel of John.

  Just look at John 8:58, Jesus used "I AM" as a Name or Title for Himself, and then the Pharisees wanted to murder him for blasphemy because He was claiming to be God!

  Also, in John Chapter 18, when Jesus Christ said that He was "I AM", all of the people fell down on the ground!

  So I do believe that Jesus using the Name "I AM" in John must have had great significance.

  The Watchtower Society, in their warped-out New World Trans-Obliteration of the Holy Scriptures, ALTERED the Exodus and John 8:58 Scriptures so that in their Bible, the two Verses have NO connection.

  Here is how their Bible reads:

  In Exodus, it reads "I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE" instead of "I AM WHO I AM".

  In John 8:58, it reads "I have been", instead of "I AM".

  Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 29 August 2002 22:15:43
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  OUTLAW

  Didn`t Popeye say that? "I am who I am,and thats all that I am.I`m Popeye the salior man"..LOL...OUTLAW
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  Ginosko

  Hi,

  English is not my native languaje and almost always I only read the threds. But in this case I think have some information usufull. But this is only my personal opinion.

  I AM from John 8:58 come from the greek EGO EIMI. Exodus 3:14 was writted in Hebrew but translated near 200 BC into greek to EGO EIMI O ON and the to the Englis I AM WHO I AM. In the septuagint there a several ocasion in which the words EGO EIMI are used, for example in Gen 24:34 talking about the aplying to a slave of Abraham. Also wa can see in Mat 26: 25 a Judas using EGO EIMI. Therefore, don't try understand any deep revelation in this words.

  Personally I can agree that the JW don't understand completed the role of Jesus Christ, but I don't believe in the Trinity. I also can agree according Heb 1:6 that we need to give PROSKYNEO, but I understand that the Father is greater than Jesus Christ.

  On the other hand. Is very hard to be sure about any dogma in the bible. The Father see the heart not our kwnoledge.
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  Hi Ginosko,

  You may be right.

  I still think in John 8:58 Jesus was saying that He was the Great Eternal "I AM" because the Pharisees tried tostone Him immediately afterwards for blasphemy.

  Since this is a Thread about our Lord Jesus Christ, I think I would post some Scriptures showing that Jesus Christ was indeed PRAYED TO by the Apostles and Disciples, and PRAYER is something reserved for GOD ALONE:

  Acts 7:55: But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked up steadfastly into Heaven, and saw the Glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
  Acts 7:56: and said, "Behold, I see the Heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!"
  Acts 7:57: But they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and rushed at him with one accord.
  Acts 7:58: They threw him out of the City, and stoned him. The witnesses placed their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul.
  Acts 7:59: They stoned Stephen as he called out, saying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!"
  Acts 7:60: He kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, "Lord, don't hold this sin against them!" When he had said this, he fell asleep (in death).

  2nd Corinthians 12:8: Concerning this thing, I begged the Lord three times that it might depart from me.
  2nd Corinthians 12:9: He has said to me, "My Grace is sufficient for you, for My power is made perfect in weakness." Most gladly therefore I will rather glory in my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest on me.
  2nd Corinthians 12:10: Therefore I take pleasure in weaknesses, in injuries, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then am I strong.

  Revelation 22:20: He who testifies these things says, "Yes, I Come quickly." Amen! Yes, Come, Lord Jesus.
  Revelation 22:21: The Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with all the Saints (Holy Ones). Amen.
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  Ginosko

  I can agree that according the bible, we can pray Jesus. But I don't agree that this means that Jesus Christ is the same as the Father. And I also can understand that this last words are very polemics, but is my opinion. As I cited in Heb 1:6 the angels also workship Jesus Christ, but I understand that all this is for the glory of the Father as Phi 2:11 told us. For me 1 Cor 8: 5-6 is enough clear. But again, the Father see heart not knowledge. There are a lot of guys more inteligent than us who try to understand this points in the bible and were unable to explain completed clear to us. Don't worry much about this topic. Try to be a better person and to develop a relationship with the Father.

  Agape.
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  Ginosko

  I miss one point. The Pharisean try to tostone Jesus because they hated him. When a group of persons hate someone they find some reason of guilty not matter if true or not.
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  Ginosko said:

  I can agree that according the bible, we can pray Jesus. But I don't agree that this means that Jesus Christ is the same as the Father.

  Good point. Jesus Christ is definitely not the same Person as the Father. You are correct, The Son is in subjection to the Father, however, I do believe that Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are EQUAL with the Father in their Nature and Eternalness (if "Eternalness" is a word).

  Ginosko said:

  As I cited in Heb 1:6 the angels also workship Jesus Christ, but I understand that all this is for the glory of the Father as Phi 2:11 told us. For me 1 Cor 8: 5-6 is enough clear.

  Yes, Jesus Christ was worshipped and prayed to, which, according to the Scriptures, are things which are reserved for Almighty God, so I believe that Jesus Christ is definitely God (John 1:1, John 20:28, etc.) but He is in subjection to God the Father. Yes, the Father is glorified when we glorify the Son, that is why Jesus Himself said that we should "Honor the Son just as you honor the Father." So, we should be honoring them both EQUALLY as being God. In fact, it is God the Holy Spirit who brings attention to Jesus and leads people to Him to be Born Again.

  Ginosko said:

  But again, the Father see heart not knowledge. There are a lot of guys more inteligent than us who try to understand this points in the bible and were unable to explain completed clear to us. Don't worry much about this topic. Try to be a better person and to develop a relationship with the Father.

  Yes, the Father (as well as the Son and the Spirit) certainly does see our hearts, and it is important to be the best person you can be, and to follow Christ's example as closely as we possibly can, and yes, developing a close relationship with the Father and Christ Jesus is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. However, I do believe it is also very important for us to acknowledge Jesus Christ's True Nature as is revealed in the Bible.

  Ginosko said

  I miss one point. The Pharisean try to tostone Jesus because they hated him. When a group of persons hate someone they find some reason of guilty not matter if true or not.

  Good point, yes the Pharisees used every opportunity they had to try and kill Jesus, however, my point was, they wanted to appear "righteous" to the onlookers, so I noticed that when they tried to stone Him in the Scriptures, they waited until Jesus said something that was blasphemy for someone to say unless they were Truly God. So, if you notice, in John Chapter 8, they did not try to stone Him until John 8:58 where He said "Before Abraham was born, I AM." The way I see it is that the Pharisees did not realize perhaps, that Christ had said He was "I AM" previously in Chapter 8, because in John 8:53, the Pharisees ask Jesus, "Who do you make Youself out to be?" But when when Jesus made it clear that He had existed before Abraham and then said "I AM", I think the Pharisees knew exactly what He meant, and since the Pharisees did not believe Jesus was God, they tried to stone Him for blasphemy.

  I hope I made sense.

  Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 30 August 2002 0:39:20
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  JosephMalik

  Just look at John 8:58, Jesus used "I AM" as a Name or Title for Himself, and then the Pharisees wanted to murder him for blasphemy because He was claiming to be God!

  Undisfellowshipped,

  No! All one has to do is read the texts to see that this is a simply a response to their question. There is no connection with Exodus whatever. Besides the Greek text of John is not related to the Hebrew text of Exodus. Check a Septuigent and see how they translate Ex 3:14 into Greek. Our Lord did not say I am the Being (ego emi ho ohn) which is specific and used in the Septuigent not general as the simple I am (ego emi) used in John. Even the King James does not capitalize the phrase.

  57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

  Verse 58 simply responds to the question in verse 57. The Verily, Verily, is a Jewish idiom that indicates an absolute truth is now being uttered. And that truth is that He existed before Abraham was. Thus the I am is simply a historical fact and reference not a name. It indicates a prior existence already established in John 1:1. You will find additional information on such use in Beyond Trinitarianism found at http://localsonly.wilmington.net/jmalik/ There is no smoking gun here such as you indicate in your comments.

  P.S. I just noticed that Ginosko argued well and the anger that the Jews displayed by such comments does not support your view. After all they were wrong and their error does not a truth make. You will find all this discussed in my document on the trinity.

  Joseph

  Edited by - JosephMalik on 30 August 2002 1:22:41

  Edited by - JosephMalik on 30 August 2002 1:33:50