Why WT Elders can't handle child abuse cases

by JT 18 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

Pathofthorns

Hey JT, nice to see u still around
I had to really laugh at what you said near the end:
now can you imagine that you are sitting on the runway in a 747 at LAX and they annouce over the PA
this is to inform you that in the cabin today is Leroy, Fred and Ralph they are all Untrained Volunteers who will be flying us overseas
yes this is what it is like my friends
How the structure of this organization has been formed was explained so well. I think it is a shame so few have actually given any thought to how it all actually works.
it is not sad to think that a bunch of guys who hand out Cheese on Crackers at Walmart for a living are convinced to believe that they are qualified to handle such issues
and when they call bethel for help and they are talking to some bro on the Service desk - in most cases they are talking to a guy who came to bethel at 19 worked in the laundry, cleaning or factory, was a good yes man, and moved up from the manual labor work at bethel to a desk job as a secretary and later got his own secretary and now he has 35 yrs of bethel service with or without a HS Diploma and now our Cheese Cracker bro is on the phone talking to our YES man on an issue this involved- with it's emotional , psycholgical and physicall ramifications on this person's life
Path
chezza

Great post and so very true.
Angharad

Great points JT
Good to see you
LDH

((((((((JT and Mrs JT)))))))))
Catch my thread on JR Brown leaving the elders hanging out to dry...again.
Lisa
ChristianObserver

Hello :o)
I posted this in response to another thread which stated that the first thing that the poster, as an elder, would have done in the Erica Rodriguez case would have been to have hugged her. It would be an ill-advised male elder who would hug the female victim of a male paedophile.
*There are many possible ramifications resulting from child abuse - the untrained should *concernedly* point the victims in the direction of the *experts* imo. This would be how I would interpret the Biblical injunctions.
I understand you wishing to give comfort to the victim by giving a hug. Unfortunately, in the society in which we find ourselves, and in the situation which you describe, this is not necessarily the most compassionate nor practical beginning.
If the child was accompanied by a parent whom he/she trusted, I would suggest that this would be the right person to hug them at this point. I would be shedding tears of grief and compassion for the victim ......
In this day and age and with the knowledge that we now possess, a process which requires a victim, especially a female victim, of a male abuser - and more especially a small child - to answer the questions of untrained and unqualified adult males - I consider totally insensitive, extremely foolish and inordinately crass.*
I am wondering if there is anyone in any authority in the WTBTS who has any idea of the further pyschological damage and trauma which would be caused for the victim, particularly a small child, by being asked probing and intimate questions by a group of untrained male elders about criminal activities performed by another adult on that little person?
Part of the gathering of information about paedophile activity from a small victim involves a *trusted* individual with whom the child *interacts* in a *non-threatening* environment through play using dolls or puppets, often being observed and recorded by qualified people via a 2 way mirror. The child is treated with kid gloves and would be unaware of the information gleaning process which might take place over an extended period of time.
Is this facility and degree of expertise available within the WTBTS or any other organisation which attempts to deal with child abuse *in house*?
If it is not, then those who have set the policies, those responsible for authorising the policies, those who have not changed the policies in view of current knowledge and expertise, those who have not heeded others who have pointed out problems and failures within the policies, those who are involved in implementing the policies, those who are involved in overseeing adherence to the policicies, those responsible for monitoring the policies, those who do not question the advisability of the policies are all guilty of failure to discharge their congregational responsibility to protect the children as set out in WTBTS literature.
Paedophilia is not confined to the Roman Catholic Church, nor to the congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses. The 2 groups have been found wanting in their handling of abuse cases. It is time for them both to recognise the shortcomings in their systems. It is the failure of the 2 groups to address the problems within their organisations and their desire to keep the information under wraps which is now causing God's name to be drawn into disrepute. Had the problems been addressed immediately they became apparent, the enormous public reaction could have been minimised and further cases of child abuse minimised. Unfortunately, both the Roman Catholic Church and the WTBTS have dragged their feet in addressing the situations despite rumblings from inside that all is not well and that changes were required. Those in authority who did not heed those warnings and act to stop such terrible atrocities bear a heavy responsibility for that inactivity and obstruction to change.
Paedophiles go where the children are most vulnerable or least protected. It is up to us as individuals to protect our children and have structures in place to ensure such protection.
WT elders are not qualified individuals to handle child abuse and should not be required to do so. If a Jehovah's Witness parent were to approach an elder to report that one of their children had possibly broken the arm of another of their children, the injured child would not be sat down immediately and questioned about the minutiae of how the accident happened. The injured child would be sent off for the assistance of qualified medical personnel, surely....?
Why does this not happen with child abuse vicitms?
COMF

Classic JT. Glad to see you posting again!
"Can you believe there are still people suckering for this shit? Hehehe!"
- J.R. Brown
JT

CO says :
"WT elders are not qualified individuals to handle child abuse"
this is the bottom line no window washer has no busines playing investigator with an issue this:
1. emotional
2 psychological
3. and physically damaging-
as well as being a crime
as mentioned if you break your hard you don't let a jackleg dr reset the bone
elders are JACKS OF ALL TRADES (marriage, career advice, investment advice, medical advice, and legal advice) AND MASTERS OF NONES
%%%%%%%%
LDH says:
Catch my thread on JR Brown leaving the elders hanging out to dry...again.
Excellent point and so true that is why the wt has been for the last few years setting the elders up by distancing themselves from what they do - Notice these instructions to the elders:
http://www.star.net/People/~docbob/df_forms.html
REPOST---
What Not To Put On Disfellowshipping
Forms
During the Kingdom Ministry Schools that were held during November and December of
1994, elders in the United States were given information that was to be written into their
"Pay Attention To Yourselves And To All The Flock" book.
This information concerned the
S77 and S79 forms that local judicial committees use to report disfellowshippings to the
branch office in Brooklyn.
The following was read to the elders, twice, for them to write
word for word into their books.
Six Expressions That Should Not Be Used on S77 and S79 Forms
1. Anything alluding to or naming one of the Society's attorneys
2. Any mention of the Legal Department
3. Any comments referring to direction from the Society
4. Any comments mentioning anyone other than the committee itself as a
possible influence in the decision reached
5. Any comments that might suggest to someone with a critical eye that the
committee did not reach its decision on its own but, instead, somehow
yielded to the influence of an outside party
6. Any comments indicating that the elders mishandled the case or committed
any error in the investigation or the judicial committee process.
I will now take these points one at a time and pose some questions and make some
comments about them.
1. Anything alluding to or naming one of the Society's attorneys 2. Any
mention of the Legal Department
The first two points are closely related, so I will take them together. Normally, the Society's
Legal Department would be consulted only under very unusual circumstances. There
would not likely be any inclination for the judicial committee to mention either the Society's
Legal Department or their attorneys by name on the S77 or S79 forms unless they had
been consulted on that case. If the Legal Department had been consulted, then it would
have had some effect on the conduct and possibly the outcome of the judicial hearing.
That being so, why is the Society telling the elders on the judicial committee not to mention
them if they had to be consulted?
3. Any comments referring to direction from the Society
Why are the elders told not to mention it when every aspect of the judicial process is
conducted according to direction from the Society?
Go to Watchtower Observer , press the button for "Pay Attention to Yourself and all the
Flock" and look at Units 5a and 5b to see how precisely the Watchtower Society directs the
elders in their conducting judicial matters. Having been an elder for many years, I can
attest to the accuracy of what is presented there.
This proscription against mentioning and direction from the Society, presumably includes
not referring to any comments referring to direction from the Society not to mention
direction from the Society. But I have to ask, why does the Society not want the judicial
committee to mention this direction from the Society?
4. Any comments mentioning anyone other than the committee itself as
a possible influence in the decision reached
Notice that there is nothing that says that the committee cannot be influenced by someone
else when trying to come to a decision. The elders are just told not to mention it if there
was any such influence. I would think that the most likely sources of outside influence
would be elders who were not serving on the committee who might be related to, or be
especially close friends with, the accused, or perhaps the circuit of district overseer.
This leaves the way open for circuit or district overseers, who are directly appointed by the
Society and thus are its direct representatives, to exercise influence in a judicial situation
and never be called to task for it. At that point, the local elders are left with total
responsibility for their decision.
Why doesn't the Society admonish the elder not to allow anyone outside the committee to
influence them rather than tell them not to report it if such influence was exercised?
5. Any comments that might suggest to someone with a critical eye that
the committee did not reach its decision on its own but, instead,
somehow yielded to the influence of an outside party
Who, with a critical eye, would have access to these forms? They are for internal use only.
Even the local elders who were not on the judicial committee that handled the case in
question are not supposed to see them. One possibility is that a friend within the
congregation would somehow gain access to them and call the committee to task for
yielding to an outside influence. Another possibility is that the Society is worried about
these forms either being seized or subpoenaed.
Again, the judicial committee members are not told to disallow any outside influence, but
just not to put it on the report if it occurs.
6. Any comments indicating that the elders mishandled the case or
committed any error in the investigation or the judicial committee
process.
Is this a problem? Does the Society receive disfellowshipping forms that say "We
disfellowshipped this person, despite the fact that we mishandled his case."?
###################
Pathofthorns SAYS:
"How the structure of this organization has been formed was explained so well. I think it is a shame so few have actually given any thought to how it all actually works."
###
Path:
The above statement is truly the bottom line and we this in the comments of so many jw online as well as the folks who have spoken with their family they have no idea of how the SYSTEM WORKS.
#######
Tanalyst JT you got that right!
The head honcho at Service Dept. used to be a painter at Bethel;Campbell is his name
########
Yes his name is Merton Campbel he was my New Boy instructor- dyed in the wool SOCIETY MAN TO THE BONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#######################
Imbue:: JTsays:
The child should be interrogated by a TRAINED EXPERIENCED person FIRST, social worker or police, who are trained
Interrogated is a strong word for this maybe assessed by a trained psychologist would be more accurate.
### actually i was quoting someone else above who used the term "INERROGATED" AND I Agree it is a little to strong as well
Imbue goes on to say:
"In my area many elders are college educated. Some are professors, psychologists, accountants, lawyers and too many programmers to mention. However NONE of them are trained for the special situation of child molestation. An elders lack of education, special training and experience is the issue."
## the above statement is the bottom line ---they are at that JACK OF ALL TRADES STUFF AGAIN when they get into child molestation
excellent post
#############
Lisa
Angharad
chezza
TR
concerned mama
waiting
Dutchie
Nathan Natas
Black Man
##
TO ALL OF YOU ABOVE IT IS GOOD TO BE BACK
we are out of school for the summer
waiting

Hey JT,
Well, we sure have missed y'all! Betcha you and the mrs. aced your classes, eh? Knew y'all would. Enjoy your summer!
Quote: 4. Any comments mentioning anyone other than the committee itself as a possible influence in the decision reached.
Notice that there is nothing that says that the committee cannot be influenced by someone else when trying to come to a decision. The elders are just told not to mention it if there
was any such influence. I would think that the most likely sources of outside influence would be elders who were not serving on the committee who might be related to, or be especially close friends with, the accused, or perhaps the circuit of district overseer.
This leaves the way open for circuit or district overseers, who are directly appointed by the Society and thus are its direct representatives, to exercise influence in a judicial situation
and never be called to task for it. At that point, the local elders are left with total responsibility for their decision.
Why doesn't the Society admonish the elder not to allow anyone outside the committee to influence them rather than tell them not to report it if such influence was exercised?
.....Another possibility is that the Society is worried about
these forms either being seized or subpoenaed.
This was such a good breakdown of elder instructions on how not to let the WTBTS get caught. All in the espionage atmosphere of the police hunting True Christians down during the Great Tribulation. Man......we bought it hook, line & sinker - except for the Society Men who knew the reality.....just PR protection.
waiting
Farkel

: now can you imagine that you are sitting on the runway in a 747 at LAX and they annouce over the PA
: this is to inform you that in the cabin today is Leroy, Fred and Ralph they are all Untrained Volunteers who will be flying us overseas
Farkel is ROFLHAO!
Great piece, JT.

Why WT Elders can't handle child abuse cases

Share this