Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church (page 3)

FWFranz

Hi Cofty

Thanks for a detailed and well thought out presentation. I think that most witnesses are not really students of the bible and therefore most of what you have said here they will have missed. Yes, that is hard to believe, but true. They don't appreciate the elevated position that was conferred upon Jesus after his resurrection. The plain statements of scripture bare this out. In the mind of a JW, they feel that if they where to show this type of admiration and acknowledgment of the Son, this would somehow be immediately diminishing the same for the Father. Through deep study my own understanding of Jesus role has been magnified, though I don't espouse a trinitarian position.

FWFranz

PSacramento

Really well done Cofty.

It is quite clear that the early Christians ( can you get any earlier than Paul's writings?) put Jesus in a far higher place than modern JW's do.

Also the reason few orthodox Christians view the JW religion as a Christian one.

I think I realised it right away when in my first bible study we went over Romans 10 and it was clear that Paul was associate Jesus with God and putting HIM and HIS name where Joel had applied it to YHWH, this I stated to my JW "teacher" was in line with what Peter says in ACTS so why do the JW's insist on reading Romans 10:13 as YHWH?

I was told that it was because that is the original verse from Joel and when I said that the context of Paul shows that Jesus is LORD and that means that Christians are to call on HIS name for salvation, he said "We disagree".

So When I asked about ACTS both chapter 1 ( we are to be witness to Christ) and Peter's proclamation that it is in Jesus' name that we are saved, He said point blank, "we don't interpret those verses that way", to which I replied, "you don't interpret them literally?"

That was pretty much the end of that "study".

designs

What has come down to us is a highly edited and censored view of 'christianity'. Missing are the details of the first decades before th NT was written. Does the Bible you hold in your hand agree with the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic's view of Christianity- of course they wrote it! lol

DeWandelaar

Written 16 years ago by you (but almost two thousand years ago by others already) and still it hasn't changed... if only we can say that from the watchtower materials which seem to change in the same year! Excellent post and proof enough for me!

Apognophos

Thank you, cofty, that's a great list of scriptures for me to keep as a reference in case I ever need them. Not that long ago there was some talk from the platform about how JWs can answer a householder who says they are not Christians. I always thought that was a ridiculously easy objection to answer -- "Sure we are!" -- but now I see that being a Christian is more than a matter of saying, "We believe in Jesus as our Savior." I'm starting to understand why someone on JWN referred to the Witnesses as something like "Jehovans" instead of Christians.

That being said, I think Larsinger58 made some good points about Jesus having been clear about his being subordinate to his Father. It does make me wonder whether the early Christians were all "in sync" with Jesus on the whole Father-Son thing or whether their beliefs drifted away from his teachings even in the 1st century.

Christ Alone

Wow...you could substitute nearly ALL of those scriptures with the name "Jehovah" and it WOULD apply to JWs! Fantastic article, cofty. Sometimes it is hard to demonstrate to a JW how much they have downgraded Jesus. But this is fantastic.

PSacramento

That being said, I think Larsinger58 made some good points about Jesus having been clear about his being subordinate to his Father. It does make me wonder whether the early Christians were all "in sync" with Jesus on the whole Father-Son thing or whether their beliefs drifted away from his teachings even in the 1st century.

Christ being subordinate to The Father has nothing to do with his divine nature.

It is an irrelevant argument.

My Father and I share the same (human) nature, that I choose to be subordinate to My Father doesn't change that at all.

Christ Alone

Christ being subordinate to The Father has nothing to do with his divine nature.

It is an irrelevant argument.

This point is missed by so many exJWs that remain Christians. They still define the Trinity the same way that the WT defines the Trinity. They don't understand the difference between divine nature and divine position.

cofty

Thanks for the feedback, I'm glad it is helpful.

I think it has possibilities as a soft landing for some JWs. IMO the deity of Jesus is something that evolves within the NT and the trinity is a later development. Arguing for either of these things with a JW is going to lead you down a dead end.

Helping a JW to see that their attitude to Jesus is very different from that of the early church is something that might make them think.

Its interesting to note that the Bible Students had no problem with the idea of worshiping Jesus. I remember browsing a song book "Hymns of the Millennial Dawn" in the KH library and I was amazed to see the praise for Jesus.

PSacramento

Out of curiosrity, when does the WT say that great "aposty" happened in the church?

I heard from some that it was the 1st generation after the apostles but other say it was after Constantine.

Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church

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