Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church (page 9)

irondork

Christ Alone: John can call Jesus God.

That has always puzzled me. Regardless of how best to translate John 1:1, wether "the word was god" or "the word was a god", the very fact that John saw fit to describe the Word by using the title "God" should have been sufficient.

"But if we call Jesus "god", then they might think we're trinitarians."

Did they think John was a trinitarian?

I don't care wether God is a trinity or not. I don't think he is, but so what? One of my favorite things about not being a WT drone anymore is the ability to recognize fellow Christians by the fruits they produce -- not the doctrinal positions they hold.

PSacramento

John 1:1 is a statement of nature.

Jesus is divine.

Like Colossians, Philipians and Hebrews, all statements of his equal nature with the Father.

Christ Alone

PSac is right. The Word was divine has the exact same meaning as the Word was God. The Word was with God refers to another person (the Father). The Word was God refers to His nature or quality, divine - the same nature or quality as the Father.

But John 1:1 is not the only place in John where Jesus is called God.

John 20:27,28: " Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!""

Christ Alone

One of my favorite things about not being a WT drone anymore is the ability to recognize fellow Christians by the fruits they produce -- not the

doctrinal positions they hold.

Amen to that. Love is the bond of union, not doctrine.

wannabefree

The one that drove me nuts ... even though I know I used it in defense before when a trinitarian would refer to ...

(Isaiah 9:6) . . .And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

.... and my JW programmed idiotic response ... "yah, but the Bible never refers to Jesus as ALmighty God" ... sheesh

Christ Alone

I used to use that same argument, wannabefree! I had someone try to show me Rev 1:8 and the other "Alpha and Omega" verses in Revelation to show me that Jesus IS called Almighty God. But the WT thought was too strong on me then.

PSacramento

The prophecies of Isiah are fullfilled in Christ : He is indeed called Immanuel ( God with Us), Mighty God and so much more.

That He is called these things is a fullfillment of those verses.

myelaine

dear PSacramento...

you said: " Where is the word created? to conceive in the sense of giving birth is not to create. "...

I'm not talking about "to conceive in the sense of giving birth"...I happen to believe that Jesus the Man was created at a point in [our] time. God created from His Spirit and the ovum of the virgin Mary...the result is a completely new creation. This in no way takes anything away from Jesus the Christ, but solidifies His UNIQUENESS. fully God, fully human.

Jesus came into BEING at the time of conception (He was not there, then He was there). God the Son is self-existant and didn't come into BEING, He's always BEEN. He said: "Before abraham was, I AM"...

do you believe that Jesus the Man is pre-existant and un-created? how have you come to these conclusions?

I think that because Jesus the Man is relative to the salvation OF man, it doesn't make sense and or even seem possible that Jesus the Man was pre-existant to the creation OF man. He couldn't really be OF the seed of Jesse if there was no Jesse yet Though, the need for a saviour(the Christ, Messiah) of man can be known ahead of [our] time (creation) by God since He sees the end from the beginning. Hence the certainty of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

love michelle

p.s. you said: "John 1:1 is a statement of nature. Jesus is divine. Like Colossians, Philipians and Hebrews, all statements of his equal nature with the Father."...having some of the attributes of God can equate with some of the characteristics of God...but being of the the same nature as God would make Jesus deity...fact scripture states that the indwelling Holy Spirit produces divine qualities or attributes in men but that doesn't make them deity...divinity and deity are corresponding but different.

Christ Alone

I think this is basic orthodox Christianity, myelaine. I'm not aware of anyone that believes that Jesus was a man prior to his incarnation. But did Jesus exist as God before man was created? Yes! Jesus existed "in the beginning". John 1:1. This would be before everything else, including man.

tornapart

You should go to the jwstruggle forum... this subject has been done to death there. Very interesting though and lots of different viewpoints. One thing about it though it isn't as black and white as JWs make it!

Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church

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