Ultimately it is the child who should stop the abuse according to the GB!

by life is to short 204 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    hey enough with the jokes. it isn't appropriate here so stay on topic please.

    fleaman uk

    LL with respect, did that list really exist? It wasnt just to add drama to a tv programme? Im not being controversial for the sake of it, Im genuinely convinced there is false information out there that really helps nobodys cause.

    The list is real. Very Real. When an elder calls in to make a report about an accusation teh WTS has them fill out a form called a telememo. You can see that at

    http://www.silentlambs.org/answers/documents/slabusetelememo.doc

    See what Bill Bowen says about the list

    Inside sources reveal 23,720 reported/unreported child molesters on file at Jehovah’s Witness headquarters in New York

    In the spring of 2002, silentlambs was contacted by three different sources who claimed to have connected with people inside the headquarters of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York, located in Patterson , New York . These insiders provided silentlambs contacts with a computer data base number of 23,720 child molesters on file there. The files labeled as the “specialized shepherding arrangement” is a front for reporting child molesters to home office. Patterson is the location for the Service and Legal Departments of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, now calling itself the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses of New York, and it is in these two departments where these highly confidential files are kept. It is interesting to note the ramifications of this extraordinary number.

    When a pedophile is revealed within a congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, the Body of Elders appoints two of their number to investigate the allegation to see if there is any substance to the charge. If the claim is established upon investigation, then the local Body of Elders appoints two of their number to call Watchtower's Legal Department to report the matter. The Legal Department representative then fills out a computerized form using a question and answer format over the telephone.

    Read a copy of the actual "Telememo" used by the Legal Department to add a new pedophile to the database

    All details of the matter are recorded, including the date of birth of the pedophile; what occurred; the age of the victim; where, when, and how many times the victim was touched, etc.. These details are then put into a computer at home office for permanent record and can be recalled by those authorized at any time if there is a future infraction. At the end of a one to two hour interview, the spokesman in Legal then puts an in-house Watchtower attorney on the phone to determine if the State where the congregation is located is a reporting State. If it is, then the attorney will encourage the elders to request that parents, caregivers for the victim report the matter. If they do not want to do this, then the elders are required to do so. What if the molestation occurred in one of the thirty-six non-reporting States? Then the attorney will say, "Brothers your obligation has been fulfilled you are to remain neutral on reporting to law enforcement." At this point, in most cases, the matter is not reported.

    The original brother will then list Body of Elders' letters discussing child molestation that the elders must review. He also gives instructions that if any new matters develop as to the accused, that is, if this person molests more children, the elders are to use the date of the first report as a reference point or the child molester's date of birth. This then means Watchtower's Legal Department can easily pull up the case on computer and add the new molestation information for the data base. In addition, this provides the reason the pedophile database exists, basically to protect the legal interests of the Watchtower Corporation. The current policy requires a twenty year waiting period with no "confirmed" reports (two-eye witnesses or confession) of abuse from the perpetrator before they can be re-appointed to authority positions within the congregation. Why? Legally this allows for the statue of limitations to be completely expired for criminal prosecution as well as frees the Watchtower Corporation from any legal liability to be prosecuted criminally or civilly in the courts. The database allows Jehovah's Witnesses to privately monitor their child molesters as they move from congregation to congregation or even leave the organization protecting the molesters’ identity and crimes from law enforcement while at the same time covering themselves from possible lawsuits.

    The number of 23,720 is significant, to say the least. If we apply this to the entire worldwide organization, then the figure would be one Jehovah’s Witness out of two hundred and sixty is a child molester on file at their headquarters. Do you think Catholics have such a high ratio of pedophile priests among their priesthood? If we applied a similar ratio to the number of Catholics in the USA at 60,000,000, it would mean there are 230,769 Catholic child molesters in this country. It would appear unrealistic to believe this type of ratio could exist in the Catholic Church. Yet with Jehovah’s Witnesses the ratio could be far worse when you consider that many Jehovah’s Witness child molesters may not be reported to Watchtower Legal. If two elders who investigate an allegation are not able to establish the matter at the mouth of "two eye witnesses" will the “specialized shepherding arrangement” see anything recorded at Patterson , New York ? Please note in the letter to all Body of Elders in England , dated June 1, 2001 , this comment:

    "There are, however, many other situations that are connected with the abuse of a child. For example, there may be just one eyewitness, and the brother denies the allegation. (Deuteronomy 19:15; John 8:17) Then again, a young child might be abused by someone who himself is a minor, perhaps in his pre- or early-teens. In these and similar cases no entry will be made on the Child Protection List. Rather, information should be kept in a sealed envelope in the congregation's confidential file as described below. When such individuals move, the Congregation Service Committee should write a letter addressed to the Society's Legal Department seeking advice as to whether to communicate the details to the new congregation."

    This appears to indicate that the local congregations keep the information and only if the accused molester moves would any consideration be given to check with Watchtower Legal or even alerting the new congregation. Are these individuals considered part of the 23,720 molesters on file?

    If not, then the logical conclusions would be that there are far more accused child molesters than the 23,720 on file who have either confessed or been convicted at the mouth of "two eye witnesses." Taking into account the number of 95,000+ congregations worldwide, a conservative estimate would mean one child molester for every four congregations, based on the 23,720 figure.

    http://www.silentlambs.org/answers/23720.cfm

    That list is now 10 years old. I bet there are far too many new names added to the list.

    Near the emd of Barb Anderson's work at Brooklyn Bethel she wound up with an interesting box of data.

    Within the inner sanctums of congregations and circuits, dirty little secrets continued, and, for some unknown reason, protection of abusers was business as usual. One particularly nasty secret concerned personal instructions sent out in 1992 from one of the Governing Body members, who Harry was certain was Ted Jaracz, to a few very well-known circuit and district overseers to meet with and compel abuse victims to remain silent about their abuse or be disfellowshipped. In Harry Peloyan’s office in 1994, I, along with my husband, Joe, thumbed through a file folder full of complaining letters, which came to headquarters from across the country about the situation. Interestingly, the name of one intimidating circuit representative mentioned frequently in those letters is now a member of the Governing Body. http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/barbara-anderson.html

    Now that is scary. One of the GB is a sexual abuse? They know how to cover themselves. And what a position to be in if you don't want your dirty secrets to come out.

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    Does ayone see this had wrong or is it just me.

    LITS

    I am truly sorry I even startrd this tread because of the way you have hijacked and treasted it to defend a Illogial argument..

    LITS

    I’m sorry you started the thread too! I have particular disdain for people who state an opinion, ask others to comment on whether or not they agree, and then become angry when people tell them they do not agree and why.

    I didn't cull anything. I addressed each and every line that was posted.

    …sigh…allow me to rephrase. You so dissected the paragraph, it no longer made sense.

    This is what the text says maintaining its context:"How can you protect your body from people who do bad things like this?---First of all, do not let anybody play with your sex organs. If someone tries to do this, say firmly in a loud voice: "Stop that! I am going to tell on you!" And if the person say that what happened is your fault, don't believe that. It is not true. Just go and tell.

    It’s not an ‘incomplete message’ when context is maintained.

    ______________

    There are multiple articles like the one referenced below that empirically examine the effectiveness of different prevention strategies, but I thought this one particularly interesting because it accessed the perpetrators' perspectives.

    Victim resistance in child sexual abuse : a look into the efficacy of self-protection strategies based on the offender's experience .

    J Interpers Violence . 2011 Jun;26(9):1868-83. doi: 10.1177/0886260510372941. Epub 2010 Jun 28

    ABSTRACT

    This study examines the efficacy, as experienced by offenders with their victim , of self-protection strategies used in child sexual abuse cases. It also investigates whether the efficacy of self-protection varies according to victim characteristics. The sample consists of 94 adult offenders who sexually abused a single child and who agreed to provide confidential self-report data on the efficacy of self-protection strategies used by their victim . Strategies taken into account are: (1) yelling or screaming, (2) fighting back, (3) saying no, (4) saying they didn't want to, (5) crying, (6) telling someone else about the abuse , (7) saying they were scared, (8) demanding to be left alone, (9) saying they would tell someone, (10) saying that people are not supposed to touch their private parts, (11) trying to get away, and (12) yelling for help. Saying that they do not want to have sexual contact and saying "no" to the offender are the most effective strategies. Because they are more likely to use self-protection initially, younger girls are also more likely to prevent episodes of abuse than older girls.

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    Sabatious, the WTBTS's presumed ultimate intent in publishing the article has nothing to do with LITS's assertion.

    The thread title clearly intimates that the GB "ultimately" (i.e., in the end) places the onus on the victim to stop the abuse. Nothing in that article supports that contention.

    I distinctly remember the book's release because, at the time, I had two young daughters. I reviewed this very chapter with them repeatedly. The information was almost identical to what they were receiving contemporaneously at school. The picture is dramatic, but it merely shows a child in an empowered position.

    It's not just the picture, it's the words too:

    Usually, these people will pretend to be your friends. They may even offer you something it you will promise not to tell others about what they want to do with you. But these people are selfish, like Satan and his demons, and they only want to get pleasure for themselves. And they try to get this pleasure by having sex with children. This is very wrong!

    The document is essentially telling children that the people who they consider friends including adults are ALL suspect to being like Satan and wanting to have sex with them. This is NOT how you talk to your children about the problem of pedophilia. Leave God and the Devil out of it for one. It's common sense that you should train your children about predators. The reason why this article was written was because of the pedophilia problem in the Watchtower. Everyone is a suspect because it's so easy to blend into a CULT where everybody acts the same. The secular education on the subject is more than adequate but the Watchtower is a big brother religion. They feel offended if "the world", which they inculcate vicious prejudice of into their children, offers education about a problem that effects everyone in all organizations that work with children. Their prejudice is so strong that they do not allow outside education, even education that's essentially the same as what they print themselves, to permeate their controlled environment.

    This article should never have existed and you should have been directed to secular education, but that would never happen in a JW environment because they control every aspect of your life and hold eternal salvation over your head. The government, and everybody else for that matter, are competitors of the Watchtower because they care about the well being of the humans that reside among them. The Watchtower doesn't want to be part of the world, but they want to take from it while they wait for the end to come. Except the Bible and their law requires to comply with the secular authorities because not every situation can be solved by a group of religious zealots. Everything that is done to children in the name of the Watchtower is not in their interests but the Watchtower's. If the Watchtower actually cared about children they wouldn't have abuse running rampant in their organization. They condone the crimes, because of their lust for Armageddon, but they'd like for there to be less crime because it hits the ole bank account pretty hard every now and then with litigations.

    I'm genuinely surprised that you have been wooed by this lip service. They probably copied their education from whatever was out there and put their "SATAN WANTS TO MOLEST YOU" flavor of fear to it. They are a totalitarian regime and they must fall or more people will suffer including countless children. They must be held accountable for their crimes so that their members can wake up and start taking responsibility for their own actions instead of waiting on the Governing Body. You may have found some value in this article, but ultimately it is just propaganda and redundant when compared to the world outside of the propaganda fantasy.

    -Sab

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    It is incomplete because it does not address the full range of sexual abuses that a perpetrator can use on his or her victims. I guess you missed my response earlier where I said:

    Well okay to a point. But sexual abuse includes a lot more than physical contact. It includes getting a child to watch videos or read magazines that are sexually explicit. They may simply expose themselves or get the child to watch them masturbate. They may also make very inappropriate sexual remarks to the child.

    and

    They don't need to rub themselves on the child's "sex organs". They can rub themselves on any part of the child. It is all sexual abuse. By limiting the places where sexual contact can occur they are misinforming children about the whole spectrum of sexual abuse

    I didn't realize I had to repeat myself over and over for you to get the message. Do I really need to educate you on the nature of sexual abuse and what it is? Whether the paragraph is all together or not does not change the fact that the only abuse that the WTS deems worthy of mentioning are where the "sex organs" are touched. They are so far behind the times it isn't funny. When I was 8 way back in 1960 the cops were pretty busy trying to track a man for just exposing himself to me. And yes that is a part of sexual abuse. That is why it is incomplete.

    Shall I tell you what is wrong with that study you posted. It doesn't address the issue of the fight or flight or most importantly the play dead responses to danger. Like all mammals we are born with 3 methods of self defense when presented with danger. We all have to make a quick assessment. Can we fight the danger. Little kids pretty easily can asses whether they can fight off an adult who presents a danger to them. They are also really good at recognizing that if they run (the flight response) the adult can probably outrun them. That leaves one option open to them - play dead. If wee lie very still and hope really hard maybe the danger will just go away. These 3 responses are normal. We all have them.

    Now the problem with telling the child to say NO.

    It didn't take too long for people to recognize that expecting a child to say no and that a persistent abuser might not listen to them was a serious problem in teaching kids how to protect themselves. In fact it created more problems. Now why would that be?

    • faced with a person who wants to touch their genitals (yup that is what they are called and if we are going to teach kids about sexual abuse we aught to be able to say the words) then when a child say NO and they aren't listened to the kid pretty much realizes saying no just isn't going to do it. It is often just bad information that doesn't work.
    • Kid tries to run away and is caught - ok that doesn't work
    • kid tries to fight - well that ain't gonna work either
    • only one response left - play dead and hope the danger passes.

    Well the danger doesn't pass and the child get abused despite all of the above.

    Now the kids realizes that put up against an adult who is determined the kid doesn't stand a chance. And all those kids who were taught to say no but froze and played dead immediately - well they wound up mired in self blame and guilt. They should have said no again and again or fought back harder. They shouldn't have just played dead and let it happen.

    The people developing these programs had a lot to learn about teaching kids about sexual abuse. perhaps the WTS should go to the local library and pick up a book or two - preferably one they didn't write themselves

    You would be absolutely amazed at how few people understand sexual abuse and the play dead response. That one bit of information helps them realize that in the face of an adult they didn't stand a chance. The only thing they could do is wait for it to be over

    Little kids need to be taught about safe touch and sexual abuse. But they need to know that if they say no and it happens anyway it isn't their fault. And if they play dead - that isn't their fault either. Without scaring them we need to teach them and that means they need all the information - not just part of it.

  • life is to short
    life is to short

    JT

    How come your study did not work for me when my JW parents were abusing me? I put up my hand when I was five just like the little girl in the picture and told my mom she was not going to sexually abuse me anymore. Guess what she did abuse me and it was worse then every before.

    How come you never answered me about Jerry Sandusky and his victims? Why did it not work when they said NO like this little girl? Answer that please do not pick and choose what you want to address!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You know I said I was not going to address you anymore and I should not be now.

    You thinking is so into the religion you cannot see logic when it hits you in the face.

    Lady Lee has answered you very kindly. I just do not get you unless someone agrees with you you attack them. Why did you come on this thread since it upsets you so much? If I am so illogical why are you trying to talk to me being that I am such a clear idiot in your eyes?

    LITS

  • life is to short
    life is to short

    Also Justita

    I am not going to adress any more of you studies, law expertise, and all of you knowledge, I am done with this thread but I know you will have to have a last word so I am waiting for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    LITS

  • Chemical Emotions
    Chemical Emotions

    life is too short and lady lee are so right...

    IMO they should recomend, warmly but urgently, that the kid should TRY TO resist if they can BUT also state somehow that if in the future this resistence doesn't work or they can't or don't resist, they didn't are not to blame and should emphasize that a lot. Plus the whole article is just vague and badly written, guilt inducing, confusing, and offensive. It should be more direct, without using the jesus part or making the kid feel like an accomplice somehow.

    Lady Lee, would that be a good idea? Or am I wrong?

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    well those things would be headed in the right direction.

    The thing that really bugs me is that there are plenty of great prevention programs that teach children what to do and say and let's them know it isn't their fault if those things don't work.

    But the WTS won't use any of that material because they didn't write it. Instead they come off with half-baked notions and incomplete information and think they have done something that will let them off the hook

  • Chemical Emotions
    Chemical Emotions

    I agree completely. They disgust me.

  • bigmac
    bigmac

    " "Or they will even rub their sex organs against yours. But you should never let anybody play with penis or vulva, Not even your won brother or sister or your mother or father" "

    is it me--??--when my kids were that age--they were innocent as regards words like "penis"--"vulva". but then it was a fairly normal household. my wife would often dump the kids in the bath with me. i'd like to think my kids grew up normally--despite the WTS involvement.

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