by cantleave 834 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
The accounts and witnesses who came after are based on that
Where are these found?
How many who have not read the bible / been exposed to the bible are approached by Christ?
How many Moslems or Hindus brought up in in lands where the bible is not available are witnesses of Jesus?
How many tribes found in the Amazon were worshipping Jesus before they were discovered?
Before the apostles/disciples met Him in person, they didn't know Him either.
He stands and knocks. But most of us need something tangible first... before we can hear or see in spirit. Because of our limitations, not because of Christ's or God's. Nor do they shout to be heard. Quite, calm... not forceful.
However, His teachings are often repeated in other religions or by other wise, spiritual men. So the spirit behind them is being heard, regardless of who is being given credit for it.
Peace,
tammy
Before the apostles/disciples met Him in person, they didn't know Him either.
Where do you find that nugget of information?
One - that is something applied through reason and common sense. Though they may have known the spirit of Him; that is not something that I can state one way or another.
Two - I find that information in the gospel accounts; the letters that Paul and other witnesses wrote.
That someone took all of that and placed in in the bible has no bearing on anything. I have not stated that the bible should be dismissed or ignored.
Lets say you read a book about Ghandi, and loved the man through what you read about him. Is your love for the book, or is your love for the man the book told you about?
Peace,
tammy
Very well stated NewChapter. I hope this goes into your book if you choose to write one.
When we focus on the genocide, rape, dead children, stonings etc we are told by believers that this is wrong, and we should focus on the love and generosity. Well maybe it is the believers who are focusing on the wrong things! We are just as correct as the warm and fuzzy christians who edit out all the uncomfortable stuff. That is the bible. You pick and choose the parts you would like to emphasize, and criticize others for choosing different parts. Now an all powerful god really could have protected his reputation and prevented all this nonsense from being ascribed to him, but he did not. Either he is not all powerful, or he not all loving, or he is just having fun and playing a chess game to see who will crack the code, or he is a creation of humans who really did believe these things in the time and culture in which they wrote such nonsense. I'm going with the last option.
So let's say that there is justification for this god not intervening in evil. Is there justification for leaving believers confused, working with conflicting messages, and absolutely no way to clear things up? Would THAT be too much power? A clear message that modern people could understand and then choose to follow or not? At least it would be fair. No, instead believers cling to scripture written by people that lived in a time and place we can never fully understand. They are left on their own to pick and choose the relevant parts. And if someone chooses genocide as relevant, and another person chooses forgiveness as relevant, then they are both fully supported by the bible. And they are both condemned by the bible. It just depends on what scriptures you use. Flaky book. That's what this god has given----a flaky book. Which makes it all the more unlikely, and weighs heavily on the atheist's idea that this was always just a human attempt to explain the world and deal with our fears.
A Christian's faith should be in the Bible as the Word of God and in Christ as the Word of God made flesh. There is no Christ outside of the Bible, coming to us in our reason, feelings or whatever: that is mysticism, not Biblical Christianity: it leads to Anything Goes and ends up with our views being dominated by the false ideas which the Bible was given partly to deliver us from. Sola gratia, sola fide, solo Christo, Sola Scriptura, soli Deo gloria.
True, though, we are saved by the Christ revealed in Scripture not by the printed book itself.
NewChapter,
I fear it isn't me picking and choosing which scriptures to believe, but you. I believe all of them, and I think you are choosing only those which suit your cause. I quoted the Scriptures above not because they are the only ones I like but because you are ignoring them and painting an unrecognizeable caricature of the God of the Bible in consequence. Let's have all the Biblical evidence not just the bits you like.
The truth really I think is that you are relying on your logic more than you are relying on the Word of God. This is the Infinite we are discussing: surely you can feel that this is an area where there needs to be a bit of caution: we are finite, limited in our abilities.
Christ outside of the Bible, coming to us in our reason, feelings or whatever: that is mysticism, not Biblical Christianity: it leads to Anything Goes and ends up being dominated by the false ideas which the Bible was given partly to deliver us from.
There is no Christ outside of the Bible, coming to us in our reason, feelings or whatever: that is mysticism, not Biblical Christianity...
...True, though, we are saved by the Christ revealed in Scripture not by the printed book itself.
Holy Spirit = mysticism. Every time you ask for you it you are consulting a spirit medium: the Pure Spirit of Christ. Do you think it's possible to be a Christian and not consult a spirit medium?
Mysticism is the knowledge of, and especially the personal experience of, states of consciousness , or levels of being , or aspects of reality, beyond normal human perception, including experience of and even communion with a supreme being.
Andrew have you ever felt the Holy Spirit?
-Sab
Sab
Yes, God the Holy Spirit cannot be in you and you not know it; God cannot be in you and you not show it.
I feel the Holy Spirit as I believe and apply the Scriptures to myself, I feel the joy, I feel love for Christ and God, I feel Him sanctifying me.
As I believe the Scriptures, all through the Scriptures, not apart from the Scripture or independent from it.
Regards
Yes, God the Holy Spirit cannot be in you and you not know it; God cannot be in you and you not show it.
Yes, and that process could be described as communion with a supreme being therefore being mystical.
-Sab
