Christian Apologists - Please Watch This and Tell Us Why it is wrong? (page 2)

satinka

Not a Christian Apologist, either. I figure this is really great! I saw Dark Matter post a great video about the Book of Job, too! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVgZqnsytJI

Love it, great stuff! Thanks for sharing!

satinka

tec

Where are they?

At comic con all weekend?

I suspect no one has really commented because this is the same question of why does God allow evil; and people have shared their insight and their thoughts on that matter a lot lately.

We cause the suffering. Sometimes we learn from it. That never means God thinks it is okay, or that He isn't a thousand times more appalled, saddened, and disgusted by the suffering we cause one another. Nor does it mean that HE planned suffering into our lives for whatever purpose. But He can bring good out of the bad we cause and do. That is part of His plan. Bringing good out of the bad we do.

To the 'inconsistencies' spoken of: these would be human inconsistencies. It doesn't bother me when someone thanks God for something seemingly trivial, even if I were to think that it had nothing to do with God. It makes them happy, and it helps them to show some humility. So it makes no difference to me if someone like Tebow thanks God for all his games, whether or not God was actually helping him or not. My relationship with God and His Son is my business. Someone else's relationship with God and His Son is their business.

Of course there is no reason for an eternal, individual hell... and no reason for me to believe in one.

Peace,

tammy

InterestedOne

tec wrote:

this is the same question of why does God allow evil; and people have shared their insight and their thoughts on that matter a lot lately.

I don't read every thread, so I must have missed their insight. Can you remind us why God allows evil? In particular, in the video, a woman is being beat up. The angel asks God, "Why aren't you stopping the guy who is beating her up?" If I were walking down the street and saw a woman getting beat up, I would jump in and physically do what I could to stop him. God is usually defined to be more powerful than I am, and yet he does not physically stop the man from beating her up. In the video, God's answer is that he will not violate the man's free will. The angel retorts that since the woman's free will is being violated by the attacker, God is allowing her free will to be taken away and favoring the attacker's free will. This scenario causes people like me to ask why God would do such a thing, that is, favoring the evil man's free will over the innocent woman's free will. It makes me feel as though he, if he exists, is not someone for whom I would feel respect or love.

cantleave

Tec are you saying god "allows" suffering because mankind causes it - it isn't his fault and so not his problem?

If woudl never allow my kids to cause harm to one another, for any reason, especially not so they can learn from it. That is just plain ridiculous! I would put a stop to it immediately, first and foremost because I love them and don't want them to cause harm top each other, and secondly because that is my job as the responsible person.

A god of inaction, when when he /she / it has the ability to act, is cruel and unloving - irresponsible and should be condemned.

InterestedOne

Good analogy to the parent. I've heard Christians say that God is calling out to us to stop doing bad things. Continuing the parent analogy, this is like a parent whose kids are beating each other up, and the parent just keeps yelling at them to stop but doesn't physically put a stop to it.

designs

I guess the kids in Haiti had it coming.

NewChapter

Nothing Tec said explains the real issues brought out in the video. That a god with all this power values a rapist's free will over that of his victim. A murderer's free will over that of the child victim. God is being called out for having worse morals than superman. But that is how it works. If you find your keys, god helped you find them. if you get attacked, god had a bigger plan, and it's not his fault, but the fault of free will, even though he allowed a piece of garbage to steal YOUR free will. Why bother asking this god for anything? He will not intervene---unless it's something simple like lost keys. Why thank god for anything? He didn't intervene, left you on your own, gave others free will to help or to not, so what's all the thanks about?

At best he is an observer. Big deal. If somone is getting beat up on the sidewalk, and one observer pulls out a cell phone and calls the cops and the other just stands and watches, reasoning that it would be wrong to interfere cuz the mugger has free will, then I'd thank the guy with the phone. I'd ignore the one who refused to help. And if he had a cellphone, and still refused to call, then he is dispicable. Not deserving of thanks, but deserving of contempt.

NC

InterestedOne

So far, the video creator (DarkMatter2525), cantleave, myself, and NewChapter have clearly explained the problem. darthfader and Amelia Ashton have further pointed out that the JW position reduces the value of human life today. No poster has explained why a person should view God positively in light of the clearly-stated problem.

InterestedOne

BTTT

tec

IO - God gave us this planet, and all that is on it, to govern as we see fit. We could govern by serving one another. He has taught us and shown us how to do so. Or we could govern by serving ourselves, taking what we want (or think we have the right to take), setting up nations and boundaries, and differences that mean nothing... ruling brutally over one another, etc. History shows that many times and many people choose the latter. So we have what we have created, ourselves.

It has been written that when enough people have cried out to God (of those who belong to Him, I think... or perhaps anyone), He has intervened - or at least he has 'investigated'; turned his eye upon what is happening to create such an outcry. Such as Sodom and Gomorrah. Sodom and Gomorrah is a good eample of something else though... Abraham questioned God, wanting to make sure that God would not destroy the innocent. And God said that for the sake of even a handful of righteous, He would spare the ENTIRE place. For the sake of the few.

I will tell you that there are those who belong to Christ and God right now who are asking for time; for mercy; for that same 'sparing' of the many for the sake of the few. Mercy for all, because all need mercy.

He will put an end to these things. He has said so. But I don't know how or when the time is right to end it once and for all. He does.

Cantleaves illustration is good enough that I can ask him to answer a couple of questions as well.

If woudl never allow my kids to cause harm to one another, for any reason, especially not so they can learn from it. That is just plain ridiculous! I would put a stop to it immediately, first and foremost because I love them and don't want them to cause harm top each other, and secondly because that is my job as the responsible person.

How? How would you stop them from hurting one another if they were so inclined? Not toddlers; we can stop that... though we're stopping it all day long, no end in sight until finally they learn for themselves. What about your adult children? How do you stop them from hurting one another. Do you stop them over and over and over again for eternity? If you have taught them, and they insist upon hurting one another, what would you do? And never mind just physical harm. What about emotional harm? How do you stop them from causing that if they are determined? What if they refuse to listen to you, and refuse to allow their children to come to you, and so forth and so forth? Peace, tammy

Christian Apologists - Please Watch This and Tell Us Why it is wrong?

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