Watchtower's United Nations Association

by Celestial 61 Replies latest watchtower scandals

mind blown

@ Celestial, I'm assume you haven't been around the WTS for a very long time. The WTS for many many many years have pounded, grilled, and drilled into our brians how EVIL the UN (wild beast) is. The UN was worse then governtment, because they were trying to do what only God can do, which is bring about world peace.
It is interesting from this vantage point (I was once there too) to see how many will defend the WTS no matter what. Even make excuses for them (even after the WTS admits) a certain principle is wrong.
Many families have been torn apart for less. However, unless it has happened to you, there is no way you can understand or relate to the seriousness or empathize with the situation. This is blatant apostasy, yet they call us apostates? We're just calling it as it is! They're the ones who should be brought up on charges of apostasy.
"You judge with an iron fist, you will be judged with an iron fist. "
Celestial

The UN business just a side issue.
If the Watchtower was really selected by Jesus in 1919, to be Jehovah's channel then anything they do, including dishonesty and deception, is OK, including having different standards for the hierarchy and the drones.
So, ask yourself, was it selected? when? how kosher is the evidence? and be honest with yourself.
Cheers
Chris
I don't know that different standards apply to the administrative position of Jehovah's Witnesses and the overall membership.

As for evidence of a representative that has God's backing, you can reflect on Biblical examples of spokesmen, representatives and the demonstrable evidence they displayed as an indication they had God's backing. Moses asks for credentials to show that God actually appeared to him. So God empowers him to perform three miracles. The first of these is that of causing his staff to become a serpent and then revert to a staff, and the second is that of causing his hand to become leprous and then to be healed. These two miracles, together with that of changing water into blood, God commands Moses to perform in front of the elders of his people.
According to the Bible, miracles also served to identify Jesus as the Messiah, as evidence that he had God’s backing. He turned water into wine, healed a dying boy, cured Peter’s sick mother-in-law, made a leprous man clean, enabled a paralyzed man to walk, restored the health of a man who had been sick for 38 years, returned a man’s withered hand to normal, healed the slave of an army officer, brought a widow’s son back from the dead, and cured a blind and speechless man.

According to the Bible, there were religious leaders that denied Jesus' miracles:

Then they brought him a demon-possessed man, blind and dumb; and he cured him, so that the dumb man spoke and saw. Well, all the crowds were simply carried away and began to say: “May this not perhaps be the Son of David?” At hearing this, the Pharisees said: “This fellow does not expel the demons except by means of Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons. Matthew 12:22-24

In contemporary society, there's no credible evidence of some of the miracles described in the Bible. I'm not a devout adherent of Objectivism, but I conform to their perception of metaphysical reality.

http://www.atlassociety.org/religion_objectivism

Most major religions have believed in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods. Some religions posit a personal god (or gods); others believe in impersonal supernatural forces. (See George Walsh, The Role of Religion in History, chapter 1.) Objectivism rejects any notion of the supernatural as incompatible with the objectivity and regularity of nature as identified by reason. There is no credible evidence of miracles, magic, or other supernatural phenomena in nature.

Objectivism regards reason as an absolute. It holds that all knowledge is based on the evidence of the senses. It holds that all beliefs, conclusions, and convictions must be established by logical methods of inquiry and tested by logical methods of verification. In short, it holds that the scientific approach applies to all areas of knowledge. Blind faith, by contrast, consists in belief not based on evidence, or based on such spurious forms of "evidence" as revelation and authority. Faith is essentially an arbitrary exercise of the mind, a willful credulity based on subjective emotions rather than objective evidence, a desire for certainty without the scrupulous cognitive effort required to achieve rational certainty. Faith cannot substitute for reason as a means of knowledge, nor can it supplement reason. Reason is incompatible with arbitrary procedures of any kind.

Jehovah's Witnesses claim that holy spirit (a miraculous active force, a power imparted by God) can have a notable, definite and positive effect on human consciousness.

...power beyond what is normal may be God’s and not that out of ourselves. 2 Corinthians 4:7

Watchtower 10/01/1997

“The Bible recommends taking a handful of rest rather than toiling excessively—especially if the secular work is unnecessary. (Ecclesiastes 4:6) Although rest helps our bodies to regain strength, the source of spiritual energy is God’s active force. (Isaiah 40:29-31) We receive this holy spirit in connection with our Christian activities.”

A logical method of inquiry, tested by a logical method of verification would be participating in these Christian activities in pursuit of a notable perception of a supernatural force. I stated that “I'd have to be an active member of the congregation, free from vices that can compromise a person's spirituality” to achieve certainty of the truth. This is what I was referring to. If I come back empty handed I'll share my experience on this forum.
mind blown

You say..."I don't know that different standards apply to the administrative position"??
Not only do the exact same standards apply to the entire flock, standards for the anointed Governing Body part of the Bride of Chirst are held to an even higher standard, my friend.
I will qoute scripture later as I'm about to have dinner.....unless one of the friends will....
diamondiiz

Celestial:
I don't understand how you can continue to imply that maybe wts is true. It looks to me you have a guilt somewhere deep inside and feel that wts might honestly be true faith but you don't feel it (holy spirit) because you're doing obviously something that wts doesn't approve of and if you somehow did "repent" and returned you would be blessed to see the spirit at work. You create a circular reasoning in your mind where you seem to ignore facts as typical JW and yet there is something unsettling that you don't understand but keep pushing that unsettling feeling aside as if you don't want to investigate it.
Just as Black Sheep pointed out, wts either was selected in 1919 as they state or it wasn't. They use a formula which flip flops between 1918 and 1919 over the years to "prove" that they've been chosen in the above year. Examine the formula and date/events it's based on which should help you with establishing foundation of wts' authority. The formula is confusing in itself and probably why not many jws even think too deeply on it. I think it's stilIf you don't remember it it's
537BC(Jew return to Judea)-70 (years in Babylonian captivity) = 607 BC(fall of Jerusalem to Babylon)
607BC+2520(7 time x 360 years) = 1914AD(oct)
1914AD(oct) + 3.5(forgot present reasoning for 3.5 literal years) = 1918AD(spring)
1918AD(spring) + (3.5 symbolic days of Rev.11:11) = 1919AD
Another point to consider is what evidence is there that the bible is even remotely true word of god as claimed? Does history and archeology support all of the bible and it's time line or not?
You don't need to go much further than investigating the first book of the bible to see that it's all bunch of nonsense.
Scott77

marked for later
palmtree67

Repeating for emphasis, in case you missed it, Celestial....
You say..."I don't know that different standards apply to the administrative position"??
Not only do the exact same standards apply to the entire flock, standards for the anointed Governing Body part of the Bride of Chirst are held to an even higher standard, my friend.
Black Sheep

If I come back empty handed I'll share my experience on this forum.
This forum is already well populated by people who have come out of this church empty handed.
Don't think for a minute that you are talking to a bunch of green horns who haven't "been there, done that."
As a born-in I don't have the damage that comes from joining this church of my own free will in spite of published evidence that the bOrg is not what it claims to be. You won't have that luxury when you work that out, so do your homework now.
Cheers
Chris
Celestial

This forum is already well populated by people who have come out of this church empty handed.
Don't think for a minute that you are talking to a bunch of green horns who haven't "been there, done that."
As a born-in I don't have the damage that comes from joining this church of my own free will in spite of published evidence that the bOrg is not what it claims to be. You won't have that luxury when you work that out, so do your homework now.
Cheers
Chris
I'm doing my homework, what do you think led me here? If I come up empty handed, it won't be pretty for me. I'm also a born-in and inasmuch I've never accepted mortality.
http://bible.cc/ecclesiastes/3-11.htm

He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end. Ecclesiastes 3:11

I'm 39. The remaining years of my life will pass by much faster than the preceding years. A frightening prospect. Life is too short. That's how I feel about it anyway.
Black Sheep

If I come up empty handed, it won't be pretty for me.
Don't think it's only you that might come up empty handed.
Part of this church's requirements is that you become an active recruiter. By the time you work out who is behind the curtain, you might have several converts who will quickly assume that you have joined Satan's minions should you attempt to apologise for recruiting them. That is a very strong incentive to pretend you haven't seen behind the curtain.
I am sure I have several relatives in that position. You can see the fear in their eyes when you push the right buttons.
Vidqun

Celestial, some homework for you. Feel free to research it on the CD-ROM. As far as I know, nothing has changed, no "new light" has flashed forth. As a Witness you are even allowed to work for these beasts, e.g., clerical or administrative work in government departments and UN, but you cannot take out membership to join them. That's a no-no. You are not allowed taking out membership or buy a card, to belong to a political party. To take out membership for a library card? There you would exchange your birthright for a pot of lentil stew, i.e., a library card (cf. Hebr. 12:16). And it was hammered into our heads, friendship with the word is enmity with God (James 4:4). Here he is referring to "spiritual fornicatioin" (cf. 1 Cor. 5:9-13; 6:9, 10).
Abomination causing desolation
In the book of Daniel one distinguishes two abominations. Jesus, in his discourse on the Mount of Olives, indicated that Rome and its Pax Romana would be the “[great] abomination causing desolation” (cf. Dan. 9:27; Matt. 24:15; Luk. 21:20). The “[ultimate] abomination causing desolation”, is a creation of both the King of the North and South (cf. Dan. 8:13; 11:31). This refers to the League of Nations, and the United Nations, which as a peacekeeper, stands in the place of God’s kingdom, an abomination in God’s sight (cf. Ps. 46:8, 9; 72:3, 7, 8; Is. 2:4; Mic. 4:3).
Beast that ascends out of the abyss
This is the beast that “was, but is not, and yet is destined to ascend out of the abyss” (of inactivity). After World War I it would start off as the League of Nations, disappearing in the clouds of World War II. Afterwards it would be resurrected as the United Nations (cf. Rev. 17:8, 11). This is the beast that would kill the two witnesses (Rev. 11:7-10). In the book of Daniel it would be given the title “the [ultimate] abomination causing desolation” (Dan. 8:13; 11:31). This beast stands in the place of God’s kingdom, therefore an abomination in God’s eyes (cf. Ps. 46:8, 9; 72:3, 7, 8; Is. 2:4; Mic. 4:3).
One law
Close cooperation between the “little flock” and “the other sheep” would be prefigured by arrangements for the Passover celebration of ancient Israel. The Israelite, as well as the alien resident, had to observe the Passover: “There should exist one statute for YOU people, both for the alien resident and for the native of the land.” (Num. 9:14)

Watchtower's United Nations Association

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