by losthobbit 32 Replies latest watchtower bible
To me it's pretty obvious from these verses...
Matthew 23:36, Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32
...that Jesus, talking to his disciples, told them that Armageddon would happen in their generation (the first century). Just wondering if everyone else sees it this way, or have I missed something?
p.s. I like answers with small words and short sentences.
Armageddon makes its appearance in the Revelation to John , probably written at the end of the 1st century or a bit later, the writer would perhaps have been aware of the Gospels and Luke that deal with the coming judgement, and maybe wrote his book to explain that the end would be soon, perhaps he was surprised that it had not come by his time !
The other verses that deal with this, like the ones quoted by you, certainly read to me as though they should have occured not long after the writing.
There is certainly no hint in the Bible that millenia would pass before "the end", I think those early christians expected it "soon", but like modern day Apocalyptics they are chasing a Will O' the Wisp dream, the reality is that mankind is making the world a better place, and will overcome any problems that are thrown at them, and will be here on earh for many hundreds of thousands of years to come.
No doubt in that distant, better future, many will look back on this time of superstition and ignorant delusion with the utmost amusement.
By then, the "End TIme" cults, JW's among them, will be long forgotten.
Nice to read such positivity... I look forward to a time of rational thinking if it comes in my generation
This begs the question: Was Jesus a false prophet?
Those verses refer to the destruction of Jerusalem. That was what was supposed to happen before "this generation" passed away. The "a generation" was in fact those around when Jesus spoke those words, and Jerusalem was destroyed in under 40 years from the time the words were spoken.
However, I don't think Armageddon as Christians think of it is ever going to happen. Whether you believe in the Rapture or that everyone not in your cult is going to get destroyed, nothing of the sort is coming. Rather, we are going to see a total collapse in the whole money system (meaning you are going to lose all your purchasing power). Whether it be in toilet paper bills or in digits in a computer database, it is going to all be worthless. Regulations are going to prevent anyone from U-Do-It schemes like growing your own garden, the U-Fix-It car and computer repair kits, or starting your own business. Now that SOPA is dead, ACTA (the international version of SOPA) is in place and the United Tyranny of Stupidity has signed on. Codex Alimentarius and S-510/S-3767 will be implemented soon. Eventually, the United Tyranny of Stupidity becomes a combine, and then they use it to dredge soldiers to confiscate Africa, Asia, and Oceania along with South America. Mass human enslavement as Agenda 21+ will then happen.
And, no Christian or Muslim religion is going to save you at that point. God is going to let you and everyone else be enslaved, and do nothing about it.
Yet in 2 Peter 3 there is reference to a thousand years being as a day to God.
This is said in the context of people asking why Jesus hasn't returned yet.
So at least by that time, the idea that it could be millennia before the end times was being written of.
Paul wrote about the problem Christians were facing b/c the first generation was dying before the Second Coming. It is clear that Paul believed it would happen anyday. It is similar to the Witnesses and all the sundry Armageddon dates yet most continue worshipping.
LeavingWT...
"Was Jesus a false prophet?"
Seems that way to me.
WT Wizard...
"Those verses refer to the destruction of Jerusalem."
Really? I think it's a lot more than that... this is from Mark (NIV translation -> Sorry if anyone prefers the NWT, but it probably says pretty much the same thing):
Jesus repeatedly says that the Kingdom of God is about to come within the lifetime of those listening.
So the obvious questions here are: "What is the coming of the Kingdom of God?" and "Did it happen at the time Jesus specified?"
Here are some verses that describe the coming of the Kingdom of God
- Mark 9:1 (It would come within the lifetime of those he was talking to, confirmed again in Luke 9:27, and Matthew 24:34)
- Mark 9:47 (The Kingdom is something that you can enter - as apposed to hell)
- Mark 13:2-8 (Gives the impression that it's going to be catastrophic)
- Mark 13:17 onwards (Describes a pretty massive event, even referring to heaven and earth passing away)
WTWizard:
"we are going to see a total collapse in the whole money system"
That does seem likely. The money system is sh1t... Wait, I'll stop there... I tend to get into trouble on this forum when I talk about that topic.
Ding, two things:
1. It's very clear that these things were supposed to happen in their generation. Saying a thousand years is like a day does not matter... a generation is a generation. The writer of Peter was probably wondering why it hadn't happened and felt he had to defend his beliefs.
2. If you read 2 Peter 3, it seems like even the writer of Peter expects it to happen to the people he's writing to.
Band on the Run
Thanks for that... so it seems Peter, Paul and John were all wondering why this big event had not yet happened.
I think the concept you are thinking of is preterism. I know people who call themselves partial preterists as well.
