by Billy the Ex-Bethelite 141 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I recall on at least one occasion he counted our cat!
I thought JamesWoods took it earlier with counting piles of blankets because there 'might be a kid under there' but counting the cat is even better. One question though...did the cat answer at the meeting?
Great comments everybody. Like I said in the opening statement, "truth" gets complex. Factfinder asked some personal questions that I'll answer in my usual comedic style. First FF brings up a good point about those that tried to be honest, it got very, very frustrating.
An elder who was studying with me (I had become discouraged) was the cong secreatary. So...I found out from him a lot about what was going on in our cong. A big problem: a lot of publishers WERE NOT REPORTING THEIR FS. I worked with numerous brothers and sisters and helped the secretary organize the record cards and told him: I worked with that sister last saturday. We were out door to door for two hours. But she did not hand in a time slip. I worked with some brothers who did not hand in time slips. I told the elder they DID go out! I worked with them.
I would hear him complain to me too many are not reporting fs. I TOLD him about the ones I worked with. He told me unless each publisher reports their time he can not put anything down for them. I spoke to some about it and heard "Why does it matter? Jehovah knows what we are doing?"
The elder was upset by this. There was even a local needs part at our hall and at the Circuit Assembly about the need to report fs.
No kidding. Lots of the publishers weren't turning in their reports on time. They had lives that didn't revolve around turning in that scrap of paper. Here's how it started for me. Billy: "I need your report for this past month." Them: "But you just asked me for it last week and I gave it to you!" Me: "That's been a month ago. You are late this month like you were late last month." And yes, we did the whole local needs talk too. Most of the late reporters weren't there to hear it, so they just kept being late. For me, there were plenty that were late, but I certainly never would have considered it a "big problem". The "big problems" were things like pubs struggling to raise families and earn a living. Compared to important things that needed to be taken care of in the congregation, the monthly report was bureaucratic nonsense. I hated compiling those stupid numbers, such a waste of time. I'm surprised that this elder you talk about would share such complaints with someone already discouraged. Was he too freakin' lazy to pick up the phone himself and was trying to get you to do it for him? This thread is the most I bothered anyone about the frustrations of being the secretary and having to deal with chronically late reporters.
One thing that some of you have in common-you were dishonest in your reports and you are no longer witnesses. So how faithful were you as witnesses?
Much more faithful than Watchtower was to me. They lied about being "the truth", strung me along with false promises and false prophecy, ultimately they stole my youth and used me for cheap labor. Me? I was dishonest about my time so that I wouldn't get hassled for being "below average". I filled in gaps so that I wouldn't have to spend hours calling around and complaining to people like you. And I didn't like to see my friends in the congregation hassled if I didn't have every report for them when the CO came. I got the job done and was commended for being the best secretary ever... since I didn't bitch and moan all the time, but cranked out the tedious reports and letters that fed the WT machine. And if you must know, my only other unfaithfulness was masturbation. You tell me, who was more unfaithful? Remember, they claim to be God's channel that should never be challenged and I never claimed to be more than an imperfect dude.
So here we have posters saying they faked fs time for themselves and others and faked meeting attendence reports.
I'm not just a poster, I'm a person, with feelings, that never liked to hassle other people about the frustrations of Watchtower bean-counting. Evidently, we also have somebody *cough*factfinder*cough* waving their finger from their "I'm better than you, Billy" pedestal. You look nice up there, just like Humpty-Dumpty did.
What planet are you all from? I'm from NJ and my experiences are exactly the opposite of yours!
I'm from Earth. I've been to NJ and wasn't impressed... at all. And I'm thinking you weren't a congregation secretary. How much of your personal time would you have spent chasing down everyone's reports? And my favorite was getting them on the phone and asking them their time. They didn't even pretend to look it up. It was, "Um, it was..." and then they pull numbers out of a magic hat. All that trouble I went to for their report, just for them to fake the numbers? I could have done that... so sometimes I did.
I don't know if I should believe these posts or not because you lied as witnesses? Whose to say you are not just making this up now?
Good point. So don't believe me. I think you're lying, too. I think you're an apologist that's trying to discredit me. Who's to say that you're not from another planet and just claiming to be from NJ? I can't believe that anybody from Earth would actually brag, "I'm from NJ..."
I am really surprised by the dishonesty. I can't believe you were REALLY Jehovah's Witnesses!
I'm beginning to suspect that you really don't have much experience with Jehovah's Witnesses! Although your use of exclamation points and sweeping statements convinces me that you read Watchtower publications!
Even if its true some do fake their reports (fake witnesses they are!) there are many more who go out in FS and DON"T get counted.
You think the JW report is an underestimate? You really think there are many more extra publishers getting in extra hours... such that China and India must actually have millions of unreported publishers by now? Now I'm really beginning to think you're posting from another planet!
I can't believe this. I'm starting to believe my brother is right after all.
Then don't believe it! I suspect that you don't even have a brother! And even if you had a brother, I'm starting to believe he would be LEFT after all.
Anyway- there was a year that the US Report showed a spike in publishers. It jumped from 980,000 to 1,040,000-an increase of 60,000! But the next year? It was 988,000. Very disappointing. Where did all those publishers go? i have no idea! It never increased like that again.
Which year are you talking about? Perhaps it was after 9/11 when the inactive returned briefly, but then left again by the next service year.
This past decade the US has had several years with 0% growth, and in the last few years 1-4%.
And where are those figures coming from? Is this from the US census bureau? Oh, right, you're looking at a report of Watchtower growth... published by Watchtower.
But posters saying they just made up figures WHILE THEY WERE witnesses, even cong secrtary?
Reread the OP, I was trying to explain that the figures get inflated down the reporting pipeline. And there is plenty of pressure to keep those numbers going up.
Well, I was a witness about 30 years. I was in 6 different congs. There was a problem with publishers not reporting in each one. And thus they were not counted. I remember several CO's mentioning how important it is to report. I saw publisher counts go down when he'd tell us the summery for the last 6 months in our cong. Very discouraging. But it was being honest.
I still don't believe that you were ever really a JW. Lots of people on the Internet lie, Watchtower told me so. Therefore, you must be lying.
I had to report decreases along the way, too. It wasn't fun. In fact, it was brutal and unpleasant. Why would they chastize the publishers? Why was it discouraging? I'll tell you why. Because it is run like a business. And if the figures aren't good, the beatings will continue until morale improves. Solution: Pad the numbers enough so that there aren't any decreases.
Sure, you don't have to believe that I was ever in Bethel. And I figured it would be pointless to go into any other examples of the lying that I saw there. For people that have been among the hard-working rank-and-file JWs, it would be difficult to believe the lies that I got from high levels of Watchtower management. Would these people lie on a Worldwide Report of JWs? I believe so.
The magic number each month is what annoyed me. I remember once when an elder was reviewing my cards. He wanted to meet with my wife and I regarding our time. He hands me my cards which shows the time for the last 6 months. He starts lecturing me about how I've made it clear that I wanted to branch out in my repsonsibilities, but I'm not hitting the national avg. I thought something was goofy as the avg, was below every months total. I finally figured out that he avg 4 months as though they were 6 months. I showed him this and pulled my cell/calculator out and corrected the avg. 1 hour above the national avg. I said here ya go. He gives me a blank stare then he begins again!. I stopped him and pointed out his mistake. He just wouldn't get it.
Afterwards we start talking about others in the BS that need encouragement. When we get to one sister, I stop and I mentioned that she needs more than service time. 3 kids, no husband, she hits the avg so actually, she does better than most of us. We accomplish our goals with time in out of our surplus. Well elder idiot disagreed. It's that damn magic number. Rehardless of the effort or the circumstances, 10 hours is 10 hours. I just rolled my eyes and walked.
Now this elder always prided himself on making his time even though he was in the building commitee along with most of our elders. That's when I learned they get credit everytime they go on a build, so going out in actual door to door service only required 1 DAY out to meet his time. So basically a 2 hour morning along with coffee and donuts made them superfine apostles.
Was I very critical of what my own time was? At 1st I was very diligent. Sometimes if I felt my time out was rather fruitless, I wouldn't include it. But after getting beat on the head for the magic number, and saw how others beat the system, I just learned to not care and tell them what they wanted, until I began my fade.
One thing about "phantom" pioneers... I had put in so much time witnessing over the internet over the last 3 years that I would have been a pioneer had I counted it. Now of course I am beyond embarrassed to have done so, as it was to friends and aquaintances that I am still in contact with, not strangers.
And another thing, I checked to see how many posts factfinder had because I figured he/she was a current witness. Certainly since leaving that organization I have found many more loving, honest, good people than I found within it.
Now I'm being told I was in the miinority? That does not sound right!
And anyway" about the fs hours published as 1.5 billion. Even if its just half that-its a lot of time preaching!.....Fact Finder
So your appauled by the Fake FS Hours but half of 1.5 billion hours is fine with you?..LOL!!..
Faking FS hours is built into the WBT$ system..
I`d get a call..How many FS hrs did I have..I`d say none..
They would say you must have metioned the truth sometime this month..
We`ll put an hour in for you this month then..
If you don`t fake FS hours..Someone will do it for you..
Thats how things work in Watchtower World..
It`s all Bullshit..But..
Thats alright with you cuz even if half of it`s true it..Your impressed..
LOL!!..
..........................;-)...OUTLAW
Double Post..
Billy the ex I totally believe you about Bethel. I was there I know how it worked. I was so shocked by how many are will lie to your face at God's house of worship.
You are right on in this thread and do not let factfinder get to you. My husband was the secretary durning his elder tour. I hated it because he was always on the phone trying to get peoples time. And I got caught up into it as they some of the crazies would call when my husband was not home and give me their time they would not stop talking about stupid stuff, they they would give me their time and tell me all their problems like I was the pasters wife or something. It is just too much to go through every month and it was always the same people who did not trun in their time month after month after month. No special needs part ever fixed it.
So Billy thanks again for a great thread.
LITS
I meant how many are willing to lie to your face at the House of God. There was so much dishonesty at Bethel it would make your head swim.
LITS
inbetween-
Thank you! This forum has been a source of much information. Yes from knowledgeable persons sharing what they know, providing links to articles about the wts, sharing information & reports from meetings, etc. I have learned A LOT from people posting on jwn!
That being said- it was somewhat shocking to me to read that witnesses, even elders, lied about their fs reports & even the attendance figures. I'm glad you felt that way too. I know there were ones in the cong who were liars and got involved in wrongdoing- I saw and heard of much wrongdoing. But I never imagined people, especially pioneers would fake their hours on time slips.
I'm glad to read that you took reporting fs time seriously too. Yes, sometimes there were discussions about when to start counting time, what not to include etc.
Of course I would count all the time I was out in FS-even if nobody was home at any door. I was out there doing what Jehovah wanted me to do-using my time in his service-it was not my fault that people were not home! I have not been out door to door since around 2000. It was hard finding anyone at home back then, much less finding someone you can talk to. I'd imagine there must be even more not at home now.
But I was told it was the motive for going out that counted. Jehovah saw I was trying to please him so I was making Jehovah's heart glad by going out in fs-even if a lot of time nobody was home or I did not get to talk to anyone.
I appreciate your " 2 cents" ! Thanks inbetween!
