by Vanderhoven7 57 Replies latest jw friends
Hi All,
I wonder if someone would care to produce a list (full quotes) of all the proof texts in scripture they are aware of that establish that the human soul is innately immortal?
Just the scriptures...without comment please...so everyone will see just how clear the Bible alone (sola scriptura) is on this issue.
Thanks
Vander
Well. You're someone.
I can't think of any.
I can't think of any either.
Rev. 6:9-11: "When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed."
Luke 16:19-31 (rich man and Lazarus)
Luke 23:42-43: "Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." 43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
Hebrews 12:22-23: "But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect..."
Rev. 19:20: "But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur....Rev. 20:7-10: "When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth-- Gog and Magog-- to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
2 Cor. 5:8-10: "We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."
Ding - I assumed immortal soul meant a soul that could not die - which we know by Jesus' words that it can. "Fear the one who can kill both body and soul."
This is a thing JWs are correct on: the Bible Does NOT teach we have an immortal soul. None of the above texts say that we do.
Hi Ding,
Thank you for responding and quoting these wonderful passages as requested.
Re: Is every human soul endowed with innate immortality?
Rev. 6:9-11: "When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed." One might use this passage to support conscious life after death for the righteous, but innate immortality as a current possession of all or any, only by assumption. Paul remember looked forward to putting on immortality at the resurrection. (I Cor.15:52-54) Why put on something you already possess as a baby?
Luke 16:19-31 (rich man and Lazarus) Lazarus is described as being in Hades (Hell) which is temporary. At a future point before the final judgment, Hades will be emptied of people...so it cannot legitimately be used to establish the eternal nature or even the eternal state of the soul.
Luke 23:42-43: "Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." 43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." Certainly the righteous are promised life after death; but this mortal must still put on immortality. It is something we do not now possess.
Hebrews 12:22-23: "But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect..." Again this passage says nothing about innate immortailty. You might argue that it speaks to conditional immortality...but it falls far short of proving every human soul is innately immortal.
2 Cor. 5:8-10: "We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." Again this passage does not speak about anyone's current condition.
All the above scriptures you quoted unfortunately fall short o human immortality. They may be used to prove life after death, but the scripture declares that God alone has immortality (I Tim.6:16) and that we mortals must put immortality on at the last trump. 1Co 15:53
Now you did quote Revelation 20. I will save that one until other texts are out there.
Vander
Here's some notes from the ESV Study Bible.
No immaterial soul. Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe that humans have an immaterial nature. The “soul” is simply the life-force within a person. At death, that life-force leaves the body. Biblically, however, the word “soul” is multifaceted. One key meaning of the term is man's immaterial self that consciously survives death (Gen. 35:18; Rev. 6:9–10). Unbelievers are in conscious woe (Matt. 13:42; 25:41, 46;Luke 16:22–24; Rev. 14:11) while believers are in conscious bliss in heaven (1 Cor. 2:9; 2 Cor. 5:6–8; Phil. 1:21–23; Rev. 7:17; 21:4).
Hell. Jehovah's Witnesses believe hell is not a place of eternal suffering but is rather the common grave of humankind. The wicked are annihilated—snuffed out of conscious existence forever. Biblically, however, hell is a real place of conscious, eternal suffering (Matt. 5:22; 25:41, 46; Jude 7; Rev. 14:11; 20:10, 14).
These directly refute the notion of soul sleep
Luke 20:37-39 (New International Version)
37 But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”
39 Some of the teachers of the law responded, “Well said, teacher!”
Matthew 17:1-3 (New International Version)
1 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
2 Kings 2:11 (New International Version)
11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.
Hebrews 11:4-5 (New International Version)
4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.
5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.
Hebrews 12:1 (New International Version)
1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us
Blessings in Christ,
Stephen
The Fundamentalists are grasping at straws. Can't even provide anything that spells it out clearly.
Think About It
