Ezekiel 29:12 - Prophecy of the Desolation of Egypt for 40 years

by VM44 104 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • alice.in.wonderland
    alice.in.wonderland

    “This predicates the interpretive process on a presumption of infallibility; it is thus presupposed outright rather than demonstrated on its own. I strongly disagree with this condition because it can lead the interpreter to adopt rather strained and improbable (if not impossible) interpretations in order to harmonize what is written with what science and history have to say.”

    History is not science. Science does not conflict with the Bible unlike ancient history. Some people believe the Babylonian astronomical tables of which certain dates were derived is scientific evidence of a certain date. Nothing is farther from the truth. Their elaborate dating system originated from their astrological beliefs.

    The farther back in dated history, the more obscure history becomes:

    http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/34/is-there-any-historical-basis-for-the-events-of-the-jewish-exodus

    The Straight Dope: Is there any historical basis for the events of the Jewish Exodus?

    I don't want to get your column embroiled in biblical debates, but I must know the answer to a question that has been bothering me for some time. I need to know if the Egyptians record the Jewish Exodus in their ancient historical documents. If so, does it differ from the historical accounts? Do they record a "Moses" raised as a pharoah's son? Did they notice that they were hit with ten plagues? Finally, do they record the destruction of the Egyptian army in the Red Sea?— Rufino O., Chicago

    Dear Rufino:

    If you're hoping for a clipping from the Egyptian News-Gazette reporting a spate of unusual weather--e.g., partly sunny with occasional torrents of fire--I have to disappoint you. Apart from the Old Testament and related sources, there are only a few surviving records of any sort from the Mosaic era, mostly in the form of inscribed stone slabs called stelae.

    There's a large body of Hellenic literature dealing with Moses, but all of it was written long after the fact and was considerably embroidered in the process. One stela from the reign of Merneptah (1235-1227 BC, thought to be roughly the time of Exodus) does refer to the nomad tribe of Israel, but claims to have destroyed it. Plainly the war correspondence of the time was no more reliable than that of the present era.

    http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/Chronlgy.htm

    Assyrian, Babylonian, Egyptian and Persian Chronology Compared with the Chronology of the Bible volume I Persian Chronology and the Length of the Babylonian Exile of the Jews

    A word of caution


    Ancient history cannot be proven, because there are no living informants. And any attempt to make a chronological scheme of the kings of ancient nations is tentative. The Oslo chronology does not claim to represent the final word of the matter, but it represents a new approach to chronology. It does not generally challenge the interpretations and datings of astronomical tablets by experts such as Sachs, Hunger, Watson, Steel, and Brack-Bernsen, but it asks about the origin and quality of the tablets in question, thus scrutinizing the connection between the dates and regnal years of real kings. Its advantage is that the cuneiform data are not seen through the glasses of the traditional chronology, but the evidence of each tablet is presented in its own right. It is also an advantage that published cuneiform sources are much more numerous and much more complete than was the case 50 years ago when Parker and Dubberstein did their work. The real importance of the Oslo chronology, therefore, is not that it has established "the only true chronology", but that it has demonstrated that neither the accepted chronology which is based on P&D is "the only true chronology" .

    Considering 1,610 years was involved in producing the Bible, it would be unreasonable to conclude historical accounts will not at times conflict with the Bible. If a person has solid reason to conclude the Bible was inspired of God, conflicting accounts are relative.

  • John Kesler
    John Kesler

    PSacramento wrote:

    I think that, somewhere along the lines, because of the notion of "inerrant" and "infalliable", it was lost that prohecies in of themselves are not written in stone because they tend to be warnings as much as "will happen events", fact is, if a prophet said that A and B is gonna happen because of C, then if C becomes D then A and B will not happen.

    What, then, do you make of the following passage from Deuteronomy, which requires a 100% success rate?

    Deuteronomy 18:21-22:

    21 You may say to yourself, ‘How can we recognize a word that Yahweh has not spoken?’ 22 If a prophet speaks in the name of Yahweh but the thing does not take place or prove true, it is a word that Yahweh has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; do not be frightened by it.

  • thetrueone
    thetrueone

    Just one of many embellished stories told to give reverence to their most holy and powerful god YHWH.

    The bible actual gives evidence of false prophets among the Israelites of their era.

    Now in are era we have the WTS. and the JWS.

    Sounds like every Tom, Dick and Harry wanted to be spiritual seer contacted to the most holy one,

    back in those days as well.

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    History is not science. Science does not conflict with the Bible unlike ancient history. Some people believe the Babylonian astronomical tables of which certain dates were derived is scientific evidence of a certain date. Nothing is farther from the truth. Their elaborate dating system originated from their astrological beliefs.

    Totally fallacious reasoning. Whatever we think about the practice of astrology, the fact remains that to be a 'good' astrologer you have to be a competent astronomer. To interpret the astrological meanings behind planetary movements, you have to actually observe and accurately record planetary movements. And they didn't observe the sky ONLY to interpret omens. The watched the sky for calendrical purposes too, to keep time, to ensure the lunar cycle, the seasons, agriculture, festivals, the solar year all kept in step with each other and to try and figure out how the sky-clock worked. Superstition/religion and 'science' were part of the same package back then.

    If you don't believe the Babylonian astronomical tablets can 'scientifically' fix a date, then you must believe that all those tablets were fabricated or are devilish deceptions and are all useless for establishing any BCE dates. If you have no verifiable BCE dates, you have no 'pivotal' dates upon which to hang the WTS chronological scheme! You can't have it both ways.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    History is not science. Science does not conflict with the Bible unlike ancient history.

    Some people believe the Babylonian astronomical tables of which certain dates were derived is scientific evidence of a certain date. Nothing is farther from the truth. Their elaborate dating system originated from their astrological beliefs.

    That then, would be applicable to ALL dates, including 537 and since the bible has NO dates and you need to rely on secular dating then ALL dates are "suspicious".

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    What, then, do you make of the following passage from Deuteronomy, which requires a 100% success rate?
    Deuteronomy 18:21-22:
    21 You may say to yourself, ‘How can we recognize a word that Yahweh has not spoken?’ 22 If a prophet speaks in the name of Yahweh but the thing does not take place or prove true, it is a word that Yahweh has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; do not be frightened by it.

    IF a prophecy was one of what WILL happen as opposed to what CAN or MUST happen IF events continue to go the way they are going, YES, it MUST come true.

  • John Kesler
    John Kesler

    P-Sac:

    IF a prophecy was one of what WILL happen as opposed to what CAN or MUST happen IF events continue to go the way they are going, YES, it MUST come true.

    Of what relevance is the Deuteronomy-18 test? If one can assert that his or her prophecy "from Yahweh" didn't come true because things didn't "continue to go the way they [were] going," then the test seems rather pointless. That argument could be made to explain the failure of ANY prophecy.

    Leolaia wrote:

    I had a lengthy post on this in my debate with thirdwitness, but of course Google is useless when it comes to finding the thread.

    Is this the thread you have in mind? It appears that things get going around page 11, though you do post earlier.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Of what relevance is the Deuteronomy-18 test? If one can assert that his or her prophecy "from Yahweh" didn't come true because things didn't "continue to go the way they [were] going," then the test seems rather pointless. That argument could be made to explain the failure of ANY prophecy.

    I don't think I made myself clear, sorry.

    IF a prophecy ( and there are different types) is one of unavoidable consequence then yes, that test is valid, if the prophetic vision is one of warning then no, it is not a valid test per se.

    EX: THIS generation will all die when the sun turns black

    If this does not happen itis a false prophecy.

    EX: This generation shall die if they do not repent of their wicked ways, A great king shall not leave on stone unturned in God's judgment of them !

    And in that generation they do not repent and they get conqured and slaughtered by an invading army.

    Or they do repent and nothing happens.

    See my point?

    The WT prophecy of the 1914 Generation NOT dying without seeing the end of tribulation ( or whatever) is an example of a false prophecy, it makes a specific claim in a specififc period of time that did/has not come true.

    The 1975 is nother example.

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    This EZ 29 prophecy, is for the future, the very near future.

  • John Kesler
    John Kesler

    P-Sac:

    IF a prophecy ( and there are different types) is one of unavoidable consequence then yes, that test is valid, if the prophetic vision is one of warning then no, it is not a valid test per se.

    EX: THIS generation will all die when the sun turns black

    If this does not happen itis a false prophecy.

    Why would this be of "unavoidable consequence" any more than Ezekiel's prophecies? I could explain it away by saying that God was originally going to turn the sun black and cause this generation to die, but he changed his mind because he wanted to allow more time for people to repent, akin to the "explanation" given for the parousia's delay in 2 Peter 3.

    There are, of course, also "expalanations" for 1914:

    For some 35 years prior to 1914, The Watchtower (now the most widely distributed religious magazine on earth) had been calling attention to 1914 as a year marked in Bible prophecy. These prophecies began to have a remarkable fulfillment in 1914. One of these was Jesus' own prophecy, uttered 1,900 years ago, concerning "the sign" that would appear at the end of the system of things and that would prove that he was invisibly present with kingly power. In answer to his disciples' question about this "sign," he said: "Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress." (Matthew 24:3, 7, 8) In striking fulfillment, the first of the world wars started in 1914, bringing destruction seven times greater than all the 900 wars of the preceding 2,500 years! Pangs of distress have continued ever since. Have you experienced the war destruction, the food shortages, or any of the great earthquakes that have plagued the earth since 1914? If so, you have been an eyewitness of "the sign" of "the time of the end" of this system of things.—Daniel 12:4.

    Both biblical and extrabiblical sources have excuses for why prophecies don't take place as predicted.

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