Please Focus on the Bible

by terrypike 42 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  terrypike

  Hi people, May I firstly thank those who have responded to to my intro article, I am replying to you all as a new topic because the direct messaging is not working for me at the moment so I can clarify my perspective on Bible study. Yes there are many arguments that are put forward to demonstrate for example that the Bible has been composed of numerous preexisting creation story's ect, my focus is to give the Bible the same opportunity to defend itself as anyone reasonably expects if charged with some crime they are not guilty of.

  I find for example the account of Jesus response when questioned about the divorce certificate 'but it was not so in the beginning' confirms that Moses allowed changes to be made to the original, that said consider also the religious traditions Moses people had been exposed to, the story of the god enki who seduced even his own grandchildren and the well known incest of the Egyptian royalty, given the genetic cost, are such practices any more right now than they were then? communities that practice close relative marriages today are well documented for there higher risk of numerous health problems so how would you find Moses on that basis, guilty or not guilty as Jesus did because he understood why Moses took the creation story's of other cultures and gave his people there own creation story that taught them to avoid the general pagan practice of incest.Before looking any deeper at Moses creation story may I also ask the question why does Jesus knowing that God promised he would never again destroy the world by a flood as he did in Noah's day say 'As in the days of Noah ..the flood came and took them all away' so what did Jesus actually mean Mt 24:

  I am giving these examples because I am concerned about how our future generations yours and mine will cope with the growing pressures on our religious heritage not least from the sharp increase in the Muslim community, Should we then continue to trample down the only real resisstance we have to being absorbed into Islam or any other religion or should we be preserving what is left of our greatest cultural treasure by looking more at how we can better understand what it taught in the beginning?

  Muslims like some of you believe the Bible has been corrupted far beyond its original teaching which they call the Injil Gospel, yet ask them what the Injil is and they can tell you no more about it than most Christians can about the book of Revelation,perhaps that is because when understood as they originally were they both give the same message?

  Terry
• 

  Village Idiot

  "...I am concerned about how our future generations yours and mine will cope with the growing pressures on our religious heritage not least from the sharp increase in the Muslim community, Should we then continue to trample down the only real resisstance we have to being absorbed into Islam or any other religion..."

  Our religious heritage in the European continent consisted of multiple wars and witch-hunts (Inquisition). The Abrahamic religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all authoritarian religions which not only believe that their religion is the truth but condemn those who are not part of them to either genocide or a make believe inferno where everyone is tortured for all eternity.

  Then, in the United States we had the Puritans who executed those who were not of their religion. This included the famous Mary Dwyer who was hung from a tree by the Puritans for the high crime of being a Quaker. Such intolerance is built into the Bible both Old and New Testament.

  This Biblical attitude and the religions based on it does not make for a worthy "heritage".

  As for Islam, it is as incapable of converting large numbers of Christians as Christians are incapable of converting mass number of Muslims. There is an issue in Europe because of the large numbers of alienated and unemployed Muslim youths who are ripe for conversion to tyrannical versions of Islam but that can be handled by stopping immigration from those nations.
• 

  Crazyguy

  Your going to be fighting a loosing battle. The Muslims show many mistakes in the Bible during their teachings as a way of trying to make their Book and faith more inviting. Atheists and evolutionist are doing the same and in more detail. The Bible and the god of the Bible are going the way of the dodo bird.
• 

  Finkelstein

  my focus is to give the Bible the same opportunity to defend itself as anyone reasonably expects if charged with some crime they are not guilty of.

  So by what your saying is if modern secular societies who have roots in Judeo-Christian religious traditions completely abandon those practicing traditions that secular societies could revert back to incestral relations or be overwhelmed by Islamic religious traditions and observances.

  The way modern societies are now perceiving the Islamic religion as a whole, I really doubt that !

  Held to Judeo-Christian traditions may have helped to formulate modern secular social standards among those select countries but that doesn't mean humanity cant advance from those old structured traditions.
  
• 

  Phizzy

  " The Bible and the god of the Bible are going the way of the dodo bird."

  I agree, like the Dodo, the Bible is such an easy target.

  And may it soon happen that the god of the Quran, and that execrable book itself, soon go the way of the Dodo bird.
• 

  freemindfade

  The bible has probably been responsible for making more atheists than any other source.
• 

  terrypike

  Thanks everyone for your input, Phizzy may I say I agree with your view as far as religious extremes are concerned and the recent meeting of Muslim leaders would also agree it is time for extremes such as IS to go the way of the Dojo bird so you may well see your hope which is shared by many others realised, so what then will replace the reformation of Islam or for that matter all other religious extremes because no way will the established ones just fade quietly away.

  We can all credit our ancestors for good or not so good genes and our parents for good or not so good precedents but we can credit no one for is the good or not so good decisions we make as adults,and Finkelstine I am not saying we have to revert back to the not so good past of human history, that route is why Jimmy Saville & like minded company were so sucsessfull for so long and yes you can quite rightly say the same applies to the mainstream Christian Church even in its recent history, so if society is to advance beyond the best of what some ancient cultures are given credit for before religious extremes imposed themselves what values would be needed to prevent those negatives reimposing themselves in some new form?

  I called this post please focus on the Bible but I don't see from the reply's any positive interest in that so perhaps I am fighting a loosing battle here and the way things are going we will soon enough see a needed step change to how religion is presented to the public.
  
• 

  Perry

  I am giving these examples because I am concerned about how our future generations yours and mine will cope with the growing pressures on our religious heritage not least from the sharp increase in the Muslim community

  You make a lot of assumptions in your post. I would like to point out that most of the arguments critics of Christianity use to justify themselves without a savior are refuted on numerous websites:

  Christian Think Tank

  CARM

  However, it is important to understand what God says about unbelief. Since he is all-knowing, it eliminates a lot of frustration in determining what is going on.

  Unlike the animals; man alone is unique with his innate notions of morality and the awareness of God. Someone once said that with great gifts comes great responsibility. This is especially true in the area of moral justice and the innate knowledge of God.

  And yes, we are innately aware of God’s existence and his moral justice, from infancy.

  Romans 1: 18 & 19 states: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [holds down] the truth in unrighteousness; because that which may be known of God is manifest [shining] in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. - KJV

  God says here that the knowledge of him is already shining within us, even as sinners, but that the real problem is that unrighteous people suppress or push down this truth within themselves. People tend to imagine God as they would like him to be, or as they have been misled into believing him to be, rather than as he actually is as revealed in our hearts and his word the bible.

  This is really bad news for humans who entertain various illusions about God because God maintains that they are still accountable. It is this accountability that the gospel message of justification addresses. It is not our culture that is at stake here but our souls:

  Hebrews 9:7 it is appointed unto man once to die and then judgment

  You will find that the knowledge of God is equally suppressed among all those that are damned. It is a psychological trick the mind uses to justify itself apart from God.
• 

  nonjwspouse

  Freedomfade, I agree only partially The bible has probably been responsible for making more atheists than any other source.
  

  The Quran, torah and other holy books are responsible as well.

  However, an important, very important distinction is the interpretation of these books, not the books alone, that is the responsible force behind the justification of violence to others.
  

  As Perry mentioned the idea of God, is the idea of being held responsible for your actions to a higher power, that in itself is powerful and a deterrent to hurtful behavior. It is the religious organizations that claim to interpret and speak for God, and promote violence and hurtful behaviors in the name of God that cause such justification for wrong doing.

  ( I am not including the the allowable self defense of yours and others lives. We should not submit to evil willingly, passively) .

  Another way justification for wrong doing is the idea that you are responsible to only yourself for your actions. Even hurtful actions directed to other people. This is just as powerful and just as wrong.( I do believe this is also considered a mental disorder)
  
• 

  cofty

  Only a moral reprobate could attempt to defend the god of the bible.