Judge William Groff

by UnDisfellowshipped 16 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Below are some VERY interesting Quotes from Previous News Articles about Judge William Groff (the Judge who ruled that in New Hampshire, it is perfectly LEGAL to harbor, protect, and cover-up child molesters, and NOT warn any other Parents or Children about the molester):
    _______________________________

    http://www.eagletribune.com/news/stories/20010524/NH_008.htm

    Thursday, May 24, 2001
    Judge: French kissing is not sexual contact

    NASHUA (AP) -- French kissing doesn't amount to sexual contact under New Hampshire law, according to Hillsborough County Superior Court Judge William Groff.

    Last week Judge Groff dismissed a felony sexual assault charge against a city teen-ager, finding that sexual assault laws don't cover kissing with the tongue.

    The young man faced a charge of felonious sexual assault, involving a 6-year-old girl.

    State law defines sexual contact as intentional touching of sexual or intimate parts.

    The tongue, Judge Groff ruled, is neither sexual nor intimate.

    Judge Groff's ruling doesn't set a binding precedent, but it can be cited by lawyers to support arguments in other cases.

    Roland Simard, 18, originally was charged with eight felony sexual assault charges, alleging he sexually assaulted two girls, who were 5 and 6, between September 1998 and December 1998. He was 16 at the time, but was certified to stand trial as an adult.

    Mr. Simard was tried on three charges, all involving the older girl, and was convicted on only one -- the French kissing charge.

    Prosecutors dropped the other charges before the trial in February, largely because the younger girl was reluctant to testify, court records show.

    Mr. Simard's lawyers argued he was entitled to a new trial on the French kissing charge, but also argued it should be dismissed for failing to allege a crime. Mr. Groff agreed on both points.

    Mr. Groff's ruling recalled another of his decisions in a sexual assault case more than 10 years ago, involving the legal definition of sexual penetration.

    In 1989, Mr. Groff overturned convictions of a Lowell, Mass., man who was found guilty of sexually assaulting a young boy in Nashua because the boy used the word "bum" rather than "anus" in his testimony. Because of the potential ambiguity of the word "bum," Mr. Groff found that the boy's testimony wasn't enough to prove sexual penetration.
    ___________________________________________________________

    http://www.seacoastonline.com/2001news/6_2_e1.htm

    Portsmouth Herald

    Judge's narrow ruling overlooked the crime

    Superior Court Judge William Groff's decision that French kissing doesn't meet the state law's definition of sexual contact strains credibility.

    That decision, plus an earlier one by Judge Groff involving a young boy's use of the word "bum" instead of "anus" in his testimony, shows how difficult it is to prosecute sexual assault cases involving children.

    The French kissing case involved a 16-year-old boy and a 6-year-old girl. He was charged with kissing the girl on the lips and inserting his tongue into her mouth. Foisting one's tongue into another's mouth is a most intimate act, we'd say, and it's usually done for sexual gratification.

    State law for the purpose of convicting someone of sexual assault defines sexual contact as "intentional touching of ... sexual or intimate parts, including breasts and buttocks ... which can reasonably be construed as being for the purpose of sexual arousal or gratification."

    It also defines "sexual contact" as "the intentional touching whether directly, through clothing or otherwise, of the victim's sexual or intimate parts, including breasts and buttocks."

    Groff must be a strict constructionist. He reasoned that the tongue is neither sexual nor intimate. He wrote, "A tongue is not related to sexual relations, nor is it private. A tongue is displayed daily by the average person in speech and other conduct."

    "To accept the state's definition of tongue as an 'intimate part,'" Groff wrote, "would result in a person potentially committing a felonious sexual assault by touching a person's tongue with a finger."

    The judge further reasoned that French kissing can't be considered sexual contact under state law "even if done without consent and even if done for the purpose of sexual gratification."

    The rationale may seem convoluted but it stands unless the Supreme Court were to rule otherwise. No decision has been made on whether to contest the ruling.

    In his 1989 decision, Groff set aside a jury verdict convicting a 35-year-old man of aggravated sexual assault because the 12-year-old boy in his testimony wasn't precise in defining into what part of his buttocks the defendant had inserted his fingers. The state Supreme Court later upheld Groff's action, which had come under heavy criticism.

    It's difficult to second-guess a judge, but Groff seems to be a stickler for definitions of sexual assault as stated in state law, without allowance for interpretation.

    Perhaps he reasons that sexual assault convictions are so severe in nature that only strict adherence to the law as written and narrowly defined serves the ends of justice and guarantees due process for defendants.

    But it does appear this approach makes for peculiar decisions, such as the one that says that a teen-age boy French kissing a 6-year-old isn't sexual assault.

    Groff may have felt that the law was vague on this point, but his decision further adds to the confusion.

    — The Nashua Telegraph
    ________________________________________________

    http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/therapists.htm

    Reuters reported that in MANCHESTER, NEW HAMPSHIRE, Superior Court Judge William Groff set a national precedent by ruling that recovered memories of sexual assault cannot be used as evidence at a trial. One case involved accusations of rape against a 51-year-old teacher, John Monahan. The "victim" claimed she was 13 years old at the time of the rape, though she did not remember the incident until she underwent therapy. The other case involved accusations by a woman against her father, 58-year-old Joel Hungerford. She claimed he raped her on the eve of her wedding in 1991, but she did not recall it until after a year in therapy. The judge said in his opinion: "The phenomenon of memory repression and the process of therapy used in these cases to recover the memories have not gained general acceptance in the field of psychology and are not scientifically reliable."
    ________________________________________________

    http://www.cmonitor.com/stories/news/state/0823_porn.shtml

    Porn case confession thrown out

    Judge: Gagnon wasn't informed of rights

    Thursday, August 23, 2001

    NASHUA

    NASHUA - A judge says an eighth-grade teacher's confession that he secretly videotaped pupils undressing and later threw the tapes away cannot be used during his trial.

    Superior Court Judge William Groff ruled Tuesday that the police failed properly to inform Paul Gagnon, 44, of his rights before getting a taped confession.

    In that confession, Gagnon, a former teacher at Nashua Catholic Regional Junior High School, said he had about 50 videotapes, according to testimony during a hearing earlier this month in Hillsborough County Superior Court. Gagnon also told detectives he had thrown out the tapes and cameras with the trash, court records show.

    According to court records, the police found 119 videotapes, three video cameras, various child pornography, female undergarments and other items in a Dumpster outside the school.

    Gagnon's lawyer, Eric Wilson, called it a major victory on one charge of destruction of evidence, which grew out of the items found in the trash after Gagnon learned police had been notified.

    However, Groff said police searches of Gagnon's home and car were legal. Gagnon still faces 31 charges of possession of child pornography that did not involve pupils at the school.

    Assistant County Attorney John Harding declined to comment on the rulings, but said the case would continue. The trial is scheduled for September.

    Gagnon was arrested after pupils found a camera hidden in a room in which they changed for class skits.

    Gagnon's lawyer argued that the police never read Gagnon his Miranda rights, informing him he had the right to a lawyer and that anything he said could and would be used against him in court.

    Gagnon read a copy of the Miranda rights and said he understood them, but that waiver was limited to a written statement he made denying knowledge of the video camera at the school, according to court testimony.

    When detectives questioned him further, he admitted using the camera to videotape children surreptitiously, court records show. When detectives later told Gagnon he would be charged with a felony and then taped his confession, they needed to read Gagnon his Miranda rights again but didn't, Groff ruled.
    __________________________________________________________

    Man convicted of sexual assault without church testimony

    07/27/2001
    Associated Press Newswires

    Judge William Groff ruled that Blackstock can't be sentenced under the state's "three strike's" law although he was convicted of three counts of rape. However, he could face an enhanced minimum sentence of 15 years for each charge because of his earlier conviction in Rockingham County.

    Earlier, Groff found that elders in Blackstock's Jehovah's Witness congregation could not be made to testify about Blackstock's statements to them. He cited the "religious privilege" rule, which holds that religious leaders can't be required to disclose a confession or other statements made in confidence in their capacity as spiritual advisers. Prosecutors wanted to subpoena a minister and elders from Blackstock's congregation to testify about meetings at which they discussed the allegations.
    _________________________________________________________

    Meaning of girls' 'privates' disputed

    By ANDREW WOLFE, Telegraph Staff[email protected]

    In a 1989 case, the Supreme Court upheld Groff's decision to overturn the sexual assault conviction of a Lowell, Mass., man, because the victim testified that the man "stuck his fingers in my bum." The court found the word "bum" was too ambiguous to prove sexual penetration.

    [...]

    Blackstock's case already has produced other noteworthy legal rulings.

    Before the trial, Groff ruled that Blackstock couldn't be sentenced under the state's "three strikes" rape law, because he committed all of the alleged offenses before he was charged with any of them. Some judges have interpreted the law differently, and the state Supreme Court has yet to decide the issue.

    In another pretrial ruling, Groff found that elders in Blackstock's Jehovah's Witness congregation couldn't be made to testify about his statements to them because of the "religious privilege" rule, which holds that religious leaders can't be required to disclose a confession or other statements made in confidence in their capacity as spiritual advisers.
    _________________________________________________________

    Judge: Sisters may pursue church case
    Item 2496 • Posted: 02/26/2003 • Weblogged by Religion News Blog
    http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/rnb/archives/00002496.html

    The Telegraph, Feb. 26, 2003http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/
    By ANDREW WOLFE, Telegraph Staff

    Groff ruled that the girls can’t sue the church for allegedly violating a state law that requires people to report suspected child abuse, because the law doesn’t allow such claims. However, he ruled that the elders’ alleged failure to report the abuse or take other action on their mother’s concerns can be used as evidence of negligence.

    Groff ruled that “any reasonable person” would have understood “the overwhelming risk of harm” from sexual abuse, and “the magnitude of that potential harm.”

    “This rendered the elders’ conduct unreasonably dangerous in view of the horrific consequences to the plaintiff by not taking steps to report the abuse or properly counsel the plaintiff’s mother,” Groff wrote, assuming for argument’s sake that the elders did conceal the abuse.

    “The prevention of sexual abuse of children is one of society’s greatest duties,” he continued. “Clearly the social importance of protecting the plaintiff from her father’s continued brutal sexual abuse outweighs the importance of immunizing the defendants from extended liability.”

    The Watchtower Society had argued the church couldn’t be held responsible for a failure to protect children from a parent’s abuse. The society also argued that allowing the suit to proceed would violate the constitutional protection of freedom of worship.

    Groff disagreed, finding that religious beliefs don’t excuse people from obeying state laws, including the law requiring people to report suspected child abuse.

    The Jehovah’s Witnesses also claimed the elders to whom Berry’s mother reported the abuse were ministers of the church, and that state law protects the confidentiality of communications between the elders and members of the church – just as a priest can’t be forced to testify about matters disclosed during confession.

    Groff found that issue requires further hearing, to decide whether elders were, in fact, ministers and whether their conversations with Berry’s mother should be considered confidential. A hearing on that matter is scheduled for March 17, but is expected to be postponed, Gardner said.

    Groff ruled in the church’s favor on a similar issue in a criminal sexual abuse case involving a Hollis man convicted of sexually assaulting several girls. In that case, Groff found that elders in the man’s congregation couldn’t be forced to testify about disclosures the man made while the elders were investigating abuse charges.
    ________________________________________________________

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    I remind you and this board that it was this Judge who was the first Judge to decide that the elders and the Watchtower have a "common law duty" to notify officials of possible child abuse. His Honour made numerous (and I mean numerous) rulings in support of Holy and Heather during the course of the case up to this point.

    Seems you and a lot of people on this board have convienently side stepped all of that just like how JWs try and side step all the overwhelming evidence about how stupid their friggin Blood doctrine is.

    Yeah he blew it on this one - based on my review of the statutes and evidence rules. I also note that you have NO evidence that he blew it on these newspaper articles that you site.

    To go down this road the way some are doing on this board is not right in my mind.

    hawk

  • sf
    sf

    But hawkaw, this is the road that is less traveled.

    Many of us are excited to finally travel It. And are well aware of what this journey may entail.

    This judge has 'lost sight' and needs a 'new pair of glasses'.

    Apologizing for such an error on his part is not right, in my mind.

    But what do I know, right?

    I'm just a bitter, nasty apostate that only wants to just see the WTBTS crumble, right?

    I would be more satisfied to know what was ticking in this judges mind as he made such a insane rule (ing). Got any ideas?

    Oh, and I wonder if he has seen the new childrens book put out by this lethal organization...care to send his honor a copy?

    sKally, disgusted klass

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    I have not apologized. In fact I believe he has erred and I have through a letter to the editorial board of an newspaper requested that he amend his error. Did he fail Holly and Heather? Yes in my opinion he did but of course no where near the extent that the Watchtower failed them.

    Can we say that he made a serious mistake? God damn right he did and maybe even legal counsel may not have helped the issue or bamboozled the judge seeing this is a precedent setting case on a number of fronts. Should we ask for an apology? God damn right. But to call him a bunch of names and side step all of the decisions that are in record that he gave in favour of Holly and Heather in the rest of this case - well that's not right.

    And keep in mind the Court system is not a Watchtower system. Unlike the totalitarian Watchtower system, our justice systems have mechanisms to protect Holly and Heather. That's why the system has motions to re-consider and appealent courts to ensure justice is properly served. The mistake is corrected and the case moves forward or the decision is upheld.

    The comments on this board have been disgusting at times or very subjective over this one decision. Especially when there mechanisms in place to ensure that when a mistake of law is made that it can be corrected.

    And quite frankly sf, a lot of people seem to be not "well aware of what this journey may entail" or these people would have been prepared for the ups and downs in a court case, especially one that is going where NO COURT in the United States of America has gone before!!!!!

    hawk

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Hear, hear, Hawkaw.

  • Mr. Kim
    Mr. Kim

    Justice is served in a variety of ways......................................

  • Cassiline
    Cassiline

    Hawk

    I understand your argument yet when a person who has been abused sees a ruling such as this it makes their hair stand on end and all other rulings seem to go out the window, if indeed that person was aware of the previous rulings or the magnatude of such previous rulings. I can tell you that I was not fully aware of the magnitude of any past rulings and therefore when faced with this most recent ruling it felt as a slap in the face. Even a person who has never been abused sees a ruling which makes no sense to them, outrage over what seems to be a slight to children abused everwhere by or with clergy knowledge, no matter if they are a witness or not will be the first thing which is focused on. Bad in this world always seems to outweigh good.

    The lovely system of "news" and their headlines do not seem to help much either as they will sensationalize what they see as a "juicy" news item and fail to reconize the past good of any person or event. If ya want look to Bill Clinton. It's hard for me to remember anything he ever did that may have been "good" all I remember is " I never had sexual relations with that woman".

    I know you are a passionate man and you give of yourself continually to help people of a faith you were never even a part of. This as I have told you before makes me respect and see you as a man to have much gratitude towards.

    Thanks for all you do and things I am sure many do not know of. Thanks for pointing out his previous rulings.

    Hugs

    Cassi

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Hawkaw said:

    I remind you and this board that it was this Judge who was the first Judge to decide that the elders and the Watchtower have a "common law duty" to notify officials of possible child abuse. His Honour made numerous (and I mean numerous) rulings in support of Holy and Heather during the course of the case up to this point.

    Seems you and a lot of people on this board have convienently side stepped all of that just like how JWs try and side step all the overwhelming evidence about how stupid their friggin Blood doctrine is.

    Hawkaw, I can understand your feelings about this, but please notice that I have not said anything at all on this Website that is false about Judge Groff. I have not called Judge Groff any names at all.

    I am happy that Judge Groff has ruled in favor of Holly and Heather before. I applaud him for doing so.

    In fact, in this Thread, I posted Quotes from the February 26th, 2003 News Article, in which Judge Groff made some rulings in favor of Holly and Heather, so I don't think you can accuse me of "side-stepping" that.

    Hawkaw said:

    Yeah he blew it on this one - based on my review of the statutes and evidence rules. I also note that you have NO evidence that he blew it on these newspaper articles that you site.

    To go down this road the way some are doing on this board is not right in my mind.

    First of all, I never said that Judge Groff "blew it" on those other Trials, although, I admit those News Articles definitely make it appear that Judge Groff has a history of NOT ruling in favor of child abuse victims.

    Why should I have to dig up "evidence" before I post a News Article?

    I post News Articles all of the time about JW pedophiles, and I don't have the time or the resources to look up and find actual "evidence" that they molested children before I post the News Articles.

    If I actually had any "evidence" I would be in Court testifying, most likely.

    If we can trust News Reporters to be honest when writing News Articles about JW molesters, we should be able to trust News Reporters when they write News Articles about Judges, shouldn't we?

    Hawkaw said:

    I have not apologized. In fact I believe he has erred and I have through a letter to the editorial board of an newspaper requested that he amend his error. Did he fail Holly and Heather? Yes in my opinion he did but of course no where near the extent that the Watchtower failed them.
    Can we say that he made a serious mistake? God damn right he did and maybe even legal counsel may not have helped the issue or bamboozled the judge seeing this is a precedent setting case on a number of fronts. Should we ask for an apology? God damn right. But to call him a bunch of names and side step all of the decisions that are in record that he gave in favour of Holly and Heather in the rest of this case - well that's not right.

    I have not ever called Judge Groff any names on this Website, and I don't plan on doing it in the future.

    To quote Fox News, "I report, you decide". That is what I do -- I post interesting News Articles, and then everyone else can decide what to make of them.

    I must say, however, that if the Law-Makers knowlingly leave a "loophole" wide open for religions to use to harbor molesters, then do the Law-Makers not share in the guilt for the molestations of children?

    Hawkaw said:

    And keep in mind the Court system is not a Watchtower system. Unlike the totalitarian Watchtower system, our justice systems have mechanisms to protect Holly and Heather. That's why the system has motions to re-consider and appealent courts to ensure justice is properly served. The mistake is corrected and the case moves forward or the decision is upheld.

    The comments on this board have been disgusting at times or very subjective over this one decision. Especially when there mechanisms in place to ensure that when a mistake of law is made that it can be corrected.

    I know that they can appeal, and I know that they are planning to appeal.

    It does make a person wonder though, when a judge makes a ruling and basically says "Religions have the constitutional right to harbor, protect, and cover-up child molesters, and not warn any Parents or Children about the molesters".

    Shouldn't common sense and common decency come in to play here?

    You see, Hawkaw, with a ruling like that, why couldn't NAMBLA or some other group come to New Hampshire, become a Religion, and then claim that their Religion requires them to molest children, and then to cover it up?

    Would the judge draw the line there? If so, why would the judge not draw the line in this Trial?

    Bottom Line:

    I simply post News Articles, everyone else decides what to make of the News Articles.

    I agree that Judge Groff has made some rulings in favor of JW child abuse victims, and I applaud him for that.

    However, from the News Articles I posted above, I learned the following about Judge Groff:

    * Judge Groff has, in the past, ruled that "Repressed Memories" cannot be used in Court against molesters.

    * Judge Groff has, in the past, ruled that French Kissing a 6-year old child is NOT sexual assault or abuse.

    * Judge Groff, in the past, threw out a case against a molester, because the child said "bum" instead of "butt".

    * Judge Groff, in the past, threw out a case because the Police did not read a pervert his rights the 2nd time before he confessed.

    * Judge Groff has ruled that Elders are "Ordained Ministers" who are protected by "Religious Privilege" and can legally cover-up and harbor child molesters in New Hampshire, and that they do not have to warn any Parents or Children about the molester, and do not have to notify the Authorities about the molester.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Quotes from News Article about Judge Groff's ruling:

    http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/Main.asp?SectionID=25&SubSectionID=377&ArticleID=83009

    Judge: Elders not required to report abuse
    Saturday, June 21, 2003

    Jehovah’s Witnesses’ elders were obliged not to report complaints of sexual abuse made during confidential pastoral counseling sessions, a judge ruled earlier this month.

    [...]

    The church argued, and Groff agreed, that the elders are covered by the state’s “religious privilege” rule, which protects the confidentiality of confessions or other confidential communications with religious officials.

    Groff found that Jehovah’s Witness elders are “ordained ministers” under the law, and thus the privilege applies. He also found that the meetings during which the Berrys discussed their situation were treated as confidential by the church at the time, so the elders were barred from reporting any allegations or admissions of abuse. _____________________________________________________

    Compare that with this:

    The Telegraph, Feb. 26, 2003 http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/
    Judge: Sisters may pursue church case

    However, he ruled that the elders’ alleged failure to report the abuse or take other action on their mother’s concerns can be used as evidence of negligence.

    Groff ruled that “any reasonable person” would have understood “the overwhelming risk of harm” from sexual abuse, and “the magnitude of that potential harm.”

    “This rendered the elders’ conduct unreasonably dangerous in view of the horrific consequences to the plaintiff by not taking steps to report the abuse or properly counsel the plaintiff’s mother,” Groff wrote, assuming for argument’s sake that the elders did conceal the abuse.

    “The prevention of sexual abuse of children is one of society’s greatest duties,” he continued. “Clearly the social importance of protecting the plaintiff from her father’s continued brutal sexual abuse outweighs the importance of immunizing the defendants from extended liability.”

    The Watchtower Society had argued the church couldn’t be held responsible for a failure to protect children from a parent’s abuse. The society also argued that allowing the suit to proceed would violate the constitutional protection of freedom of worship.

    Groff disagreed, finding that religious beliefs don’t excuse people from obeying state laws, including the law requiring people to report suspected child abuse.

    ______________________________________________________

    UnDisfellowshipped's Comments: It appears to me that there are some major contradictions in Judge Groff's rulings in this case.

    Judge Groff made some very, very true and just statements in the February 26th, 2003 Article, but then in the June 21st, 2003 Article, it appears that he completely contradicted what he said before.

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    You simply posted news articles????

    Then why say this at the beginning of your thread?

    Below are some VERY interesting Quotes from Previous News Articles about Judge William Groff (the Judge who ruled that in New Hampshire, it is perfectly LEGAL to harbor, protect, and cover-up child molesters, and NOT warn any other Parents or Children about the molester): .

    Please note that what you stated above is NOT what he ruled on or about and really makes my point of a number of attitudes on the case. Anyway enough of me and please feel free to flame away.

    hawk

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