MemberPostViewed: times
pseattle2Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case


This just went up on freeminds regarding the JW elders in Southern California, who have so far been stonewalling about their private conversations with accused JW child molester Gilbert Simental... The judge in the case has issued an order for them to testify:

(The judge) said... "It was more like a third-party investigation into immoral conduct."... the judge said, the elders' duty was to determine guilt and to protect the congregation, not to keep the communications under wraps.

"It's an investigative, fact-finding body without regard for confidentiality," he said. "This was a tribunal designed to protect the congregation."

Naturally, the faithful and discreet slave who brings you the truth that leads to eternal life has decided to appeal this ruling.

Link to the news article: http://www.pe.com/localnews/rivcounty/stories/PE_News_Local_H_faith26.4193557.html

IP: GiEiJphVhBrazOdh
civicsi00Re: Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case
I know, I'm excited to see the results of this. Maybe it will shed some more light on the ever-secretive Watchtower... and WAKE people UP!!
IP: enjuvTrZ4w/T8lik
wha happened?Re: Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case
I thought this battle was fought and lost last year in Napa.
IP: a/nMvp/S5P/uv1VP
horrible lifeRe: Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case

 

Since JW's   LOVE   to go to the Supreme Court,  it would be nice if this went up also.  Just to get some bad press for the JW's and show  America and the rest of the world, how horrible and cultish the JW's are. 

I still can't understand, how the Scientoligists can get such bad press, and people know that they are all wackos, but we can't break the barrier, and have the JW's declared wackos. 

IP: W0/v3RBsoUGVdikC
pseattle2Re: Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case
I thought this battle was fought and lost last year in Napa.
In 2005, to be exact, yes it was. It was one of the lawsuits that was settled in exchange for a gag agreement from the victims. The Murieta case is a whole new thing. I got a feeling we'll soon be seeing even more industrial real estate for sale in Brooklyn.
IP: GiEiJphVhBrazOdh
OnTheWayOutRe: Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case

(The judge) said... "It was more like a third-party investigation into immoral conduct."... the judge said, the elders' duty was to determine guilt and to protect the congregation, not to keep the communications under wraps.

"It's an investigative, fact-finding body without regard for confidentiality," he said. "This was a tribunal designed to protect the congregation."

The quote above went this way with the statements before it:

In his ruling, Dickerson said testimony from Elder Andrew Sinay showed the Jehovah's Witnesses' judicial committee system is not designed to keep information confidential.

Dickerson said this was not a case where Gilbert Simental went to the elders seeking forgiveness or guidance.

"This was the opposite," he said. "It was more like a third-party investigation into immoral conduct."

He also ruled:

(Elder Andrew Sinay testified about JW's judicial committee system)

Sinay said they share information obtained during judicial committee proceedings with the Jehovah's Witnesses office in New York and with committees that are called on in an appellate capacity.

Further, they told others about the outcome of their confidential discussion:

The girls' mother testified that Sinay later told her that Simental had made a full confession.

While Sinay did not provide her with a verbatim confession, she said Sinay did tell her that Simental had confessed.

Clark asked whether Sinay ever said that Simental had confessed to molesting her daughters.

The woman said he did not use the word "molest" during their conversation.

The girls' father testified that during a meeting with Sinay, Vaughn and another elder, he was also told that Simental confessed during a judicial committee meeting.

The elders also told the father that Simental had never done this before and was no danger to the community, he said.

He does it twice, but he's no danger to the community, huh?  Maybe he just molests JW's little girls so
the community outside the cong. is safe.

You can read the news post at http://www.pe.com/localnews/rivcounty/stories/PE_News_Local_H_faith26.4193557.html

 

IP: V6NggEvFWK/CdbTI
pseattle2Re: Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case

Since JW's   LOVE   to go to the Supreme Court,  it would be nice if this went up also.  Just to get some bad press for the JW's and show  America and the rest of the world, how horrible and cultish the JW's are. 

I still can't understand, how the Scientoligists can get such bad press, and people know that they are all wackos, but we can't break the barrier, and have the JW's declared wackos. 

This is different from the flag-salute thing that they went to the Supreme Court for in the first place. I think they realize they can't let it get that far and maintain their public standing. They'll drop it before the world starts watching.

Either that or turn on the persecution sign and claim the American justice system is the "king of the North" (although they've bailed 'em out before).

IP: GiEiJphVhBrazOdh
Hope4OthersRe: Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case
Since JW's   LOVE   to go to the Supreme Court

Just think it will cost them lots and lots of money all provided by the generous mind controlled parisheners so to speak.

 

hope4others

IP: e7MNhiYCx+6xu81n
OnTheWayOutRe: Re: Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case
Since JW's   LOVE   to go to the Supreme Court

Yes, this would be a great negative publicity case.  Even if they won (unlikely), the general
opinion would be that JW's protect pedophiles from prosecution. 

I like the rulings from the judge, not just because I hate the cult.  It gives several good reasons
why the clergy of JW's do not apply for confidentiality.  It makes them totally reexamine their
way of doing things.

I do believe that lawyers should be able to keep their client's confidentiality.  I do believe that
approaching your "spiritual advisor" for help (commonly known as confession) could be kept
confidential because most preachers actually help the member to come forward to the police
and make matters right.  JW's don't do that- they circle the wagons around the organization.

A group of 2 elders is an "investigative committee."  Can we see them abandon that title and
start calling the investigation into rules violation by some more acceptable term like a
"counsel session group" ?  Can we see the WTS telling elders to follow standard procedures
and never contact Headquarters with names of abusers?  Can we see their lawyers just
looking for new ways around court rulings instead of appreciating that the courts are doing the
job of protecting victims because WT has let them down?

IP: V6NggEvFWK/CdbTI
momzcrazyRe: Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case

Maybe the long arm of the WTS isn't so long after all... They aren't above the rules the rest of us have to follow. Good!

momz

IP: d1G4wwzo1CoevKWK
wha happened?Re: Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case
Once this battle is fought and lost, there are going to be a new laundry list of terms introduced into the culture. It will be yet another religious procedure being overturned by a non-religious entity.
IP: a/nMvp/S5P/uv1VP
SatanusRe: Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case
I love how they want their elders to be treated the same as catholic priests are treated. Rutherford era jws wouldn't believe their ears, if they heard that.

S
IP: RqerKL2f+RoSLMBB
calicoRe: Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case
The elders also told the father that Simental had never done this before and was no danger to the community,
So that makes everything ok--what if it had been their child?
IP: TgkuRBBDPpl1LEoo
wha happened?Re: Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case
let's apply the same logic with murder. Hmmm it just doesn't hold water does it?
IP: a/nMvp/S5P/uv1VP
flipperRe: Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case

This could be a watermark ruling ; forcing elders to have to come to court and publicly testify about what they know in particular child abuse cases within their congregations . The Watchtower society hates publicity , as evidenced by their out of court settlements in the shadows of the dark alleys with 16 witness abuse victims in 2007 ! So being forced to testify will be more bad publicity for the witnesses in the public forum. It will also be interesting as well to see if the "mother " governing body supports these elders in their testimony - or throws them under the bus as they do elders calling from phone booths about child abuse ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper
IP: 1fPwywKYavmp/o5a
pseattle2Re: Re: Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case
This could be a watermark ruling ; forcing elders to have to come to court and publicly testify about what they know in particular child abuse cases within their congregations . The Watchtower society hates publicity , as evidenced by their out of court settlements in the shadows of the dark alleys with 16 witness abuse victims in 2007 ! So being forced to testify will be more bad publicity for the witnesses in the public forum. It will also be interesting as well to see if the "mother " governing body supports these elders in their testimony - or throws them under the bus as they do elders calling from phone booths about child abuse ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

I think they must have known this was coming. Wasn't there some GB guy giving out new light recently, about the possibility that JWs will have to geographically isolate themselves, and that the "King of the North" might soon be attacking them?

The US justice and media system look awfully damn north to me. Well, northern hemisphere, at least.

All you have to know is that no matter what the end result is, the WTS will find some way to use that result as justification for their beliefs. If they win, they'll say they've been victorious, and they are therefore the truth. If they lose, they'll say the system hates them, and they are therefore the truth.

It sure would be nice to see them felled by something they didn't see coming or didn't plan for.

IP: GiEiJphVhBrazOdh
karterRe: Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case
''clergy confidentiality '' my ass if i told the elders id had an affair they would be around telling my wife in 5 mins
IP: 5dDjj9eGIoO8Lzlc
flipperRe: Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case

P SEATTLE 2 - Yeah, it would be typical " cult lingo " and damage control for the Watchtower society to say that the pedophiles in their organization are being persecuted and , they are just imperfect, and Satan is trying to attack these " reformed " a$$wipes even though they repented. I can just see the spin doctors working hard in the governing body. Sick. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
IP: 1fPwywKYavmp/o5a
horrible lifeRe: Re: Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case

 

Flipper, do you know what the  "cure"  rate on a pedophile?       I would love to be in the courtroom, if the lawyers brought up that they were reformed!!!   LOL  

IP: jT5eqYcpYtPsVEJX
flipperRe: Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case

HORRIBLE LIFE- I know, there is no cure rate . Pedophiles always re-offend . That's why the Watchtower society is so ignorant about this issue. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
IP: 1fPwywKYavmp/o5a