...that JW's have a hard time forgiving others because they themselves are rarely forgiven for their own sins. According to their beliefs Jehovah keeps track of every detail of your life...good and bad. That even if you are humble and repent of your sins, that there is still no true forgiveness until the New System. Only then are you completely sinless and forgiven for your past. Up until then you have no guarantee your sins won't be held against you. So basically they believe that Jehovah is quick to anger and slow to forgive. The total opposite of actual Bible principles. Is it any wonder that the rank and file are petty, angry, bitter, small-minded, unforgiving people? That's all they know when that's how their Jehovah acts. We all know many are just products of their leadership.

I know that probably doesn't come as a surprise to many of you, but it's just dawned on me and I thought I'd share how/why this has just hit me...

I've been in an email war with my dad the last day or so. I asked him yesterday for forgiveness for the pain my DFing has caused him and the family. His response? "It's not my place to forgive you for the pain you've caused us. It's Jehovah's." I totally disagreed with this, because even according to the bible you should be forgiving of others. And I know I don't need his forgiveness, but my point was to extend a hand of humility with the hopes that he would not be so hard-hearted towards me. Anyway, the email war was not an overly emotional WAR, but more a conversation. We've both been polite and matter of fact until my Dad's last response.

So I guess the conversation is over. I just find it so amazing that they are so quick to turn their ears off to hearing anything against their beliefs. So sad.

Andi

PS: And another thing I just realized...the way Dad signs his notes. I don't ever remember him writing "Love, Pops". He always writes "Take care, Pops". "Take care" is a way I sign off with ex-boyfriends and old co-workers...never family.

Does anyone want to adopt me? I'm little and quiet and fun and sweet. I don't take up much space and don't eat a lot. Well...okay...I do eat a lot, but I have a job and can pay for my own food.

We'll adopt you! I can always use another Texas around the house :o)

(((((((((((andi))))))))))

of course we'll need to move in with you so we can get our Texas citizenship back (been in Yankeeland too long)

closer

I find it appalling that people can be led to treat their own family like this. I'd love to adopt you, but I think the wife might have a word or two on that.

I agree with your basic premise. Here is an interesting contrast. Witnesses ALWAYS end their prayers asking for Jehovah's forgiveness. In twelve years of attending a Christian church I've NEVER heard anyone ask God for forgiveness, because everybody at our church knows they already have it.

Makes for a very different environment.

Oh, YOYO,

Kiss our collective asses you simplistic fuck!!! Stay off of the threads that are sad, or wanting for a kind word; stick to the Fred Hall posts, you degenerate.

ashi

(((closer and ashi)))

Yeah - I think you might be too young to adopt me, but thanks for the offers! I'd believe Neil might have an issue with me being adopted by a guy younger than me too. Haha!

Yo yo ma - I've been very careful about not criticizing the JW beliefs in my last couple of emails. Those emails have been about my relationship with Dad. That's it. But he's taking it very personal that I don't intend to go back. So he acts like a jerk. Well, the way I look at it is this: If it's not his place to forgive, then it's not his place to act like an ass either.

But then again...I wouldn't be surprised if he was in on this board posing as You Know, Fred, or ... perhaps you?

Andi

closer2fine: where would you like me to bite you babe?

ashitaka: I like asses.

Billygoat:

sorry for being jerky towards you. sometimes I act stupid. I'm really sorry about your relationship with your dad. Maybe if you try to find a common ground with him, well its just a thought. I loved my dad very much (I lost him a couple of years back) and I don't know what I would have done without his love and advise. I wish you had the same. I think communication is done better in person, instead of by email. Hope someday you two can patch things up.

BTW, at least you apologized, YOYO. Please just don't make hurtful comments in the first place and you might be appreciated here.

ashi

Billygoat,

Reading your touching post really bought to mind the infamous scripture in 2 Tim 3:3 that the WTS gleefully applies to everybody but themselves, ‘No natural affection’, NWT, ‘no normal human affections’, Phillips.

The WTS has clearly juxtaposed themselves between the natural affection a father has for his daughter. He obviously loves your dearly Billygoat and feels that he is helping you by taking this action, that actually defies true love. It must be very hard for him as well.

The reality is that if the WTS said it was permissible for him to show you the love and affection you desire, he would show it warmly. They control his affections. He is probably struggling hard himself to understand what has happened to his family and battling the cognitive-dissonace that most JW’s have to grapple with.

Be patient, Billygoat, time is a great healer and is also camping around the theology of the WTS, which it has laid siege to, and which the WTS will not survive.

Kindest regards -- HS

Andi:
Before I logged on today, I was thinking about how guilty I feel for having raised my son in the borg, although he is out now. And then I started thinking about parents who shun their DF children for years, and what if eventually those parents come to their senses and get out of the borg themselves. Can you imagine the guilt they would feel? But then that is one more thing that would keep them in the borg, not wanting to face that kind of guilt.

Target

Yoyo - thank you for the apology. I appreciate it.

sieg's wife - I know there are many out there that truly understand my experience. This board has been such an eye-opener and a life-saver for me. I'm relieved and yet saddened that so many of you know the pain associated with a DF or a DA from this organization. I'm very sorry that you've had to grow through this too!

HS - Coming from a man that is probably close to my fathers age, I certainly appreciate your wisdom. I try to imagine my father one day having your knowledge and discernment and kindness. As you mentioned, time is a good healer...I do know that. But patience is a virtue that I struggle with. I want to believe that someday my father will leave the organization...but I have resigned myself to the belief that I shall not be the person to pull him from it. Thank you for your encouragement and kind words!

JBean - don't cry. But your right about the accountability issue - when forgiveness is for Jehovah to do and the Satan is misleading you to sin, there is no accountability anywhere.

Andi