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MaximusGoethe to the Rescue


This is especially for Farkel, whose good name has been stolen but who has not been robbed of the affection so very many of us have for him.

Recently we've been treated to philosophy that has been a bit opaque to many. I thought I'd expose you to the German philosopher Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (sounds somewhat like GERT.uh).

He really makes sense most times, once in awhile I think him out to lunch. Think about this truth: "Once you have missed the first buttonhole, you'll never manage to button up."

Or, in thinking about catch phrases from the Society like, "No matter what, it's still God's organization" "Things are so bad the end has to be here soon."

Here's Goethe: "The phrases men are accustomed to repeat incessantly, end by becoming convictions that ossify the organs of intelligence."

Herewith are gems I'd like to share, thanks to an unknown translator.


We cannot possess what we do not understand

Nothing is worse than active ignorance

We are never deceived: we deceive ourselves

Truth is a torch but a tremendous one. That is why we hurry past it, shielding our eyes, indeed, in fear of getting burned

The first and last thing required of genius is the love of truth

Everyone hears only what he understands

We are accustomed to see men deride what they do not understand, and snarl at the good and beautiful because it lies beyond their sympathies

The further one advances in experience, the closer one comes to the unfathomable; the more one learns to utilize experience, the more one recognizes that the unfathomable is of no practical value

Hypotheses are lullabies for teachers to sing their students to sleep. The close and thoughtful observer more and more learns to recognize his limitations. He realizes that with the steady growth of knowledge more and more new problems keep on emerging

Each has his own happiness in his hands, as the artist handles the rude clay he seeks to reshape it into a figure; yet it is the same with this art as with all others: only the capacity for it is innate; the art itself must be learned and painstakingly practiced

Once one knows what really matters, one ceases to be voluble. And what does really matter? That is easy: thinking and doing, doing and thinking--and these are the sum of all wisdom ... Both must move ever onward in life, to and fro, like breathing in and breathing out. Whoever makes it a rule to test action by thought, thought by action, cannot falter, and if he does, will soon find his way back to the right road.

To be pleased with one's limits is a wretched state

_______

Well, dear ones,
what do you think?

Maximus


pix withdrawn
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SixofNineRe: Goethe to the Rescue
Sixy likes it. It is so....so....refreshingly un-opaque. {didn't want to call it transparent}
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SixofNineRe: Goethe to the Rescue
Ps. The picture encouraging breast self examination was a nice touch also. An issue close to my heart.
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waitingRe: Goethe to the Rescue
Hey Max!

Thanks for the quotes - slightly heavy thinking for Monday, eh?

We are never deceived: we deceive ourselves

In other words - stop blaming the other guy for the deception.

There was a movie while back about con artist - I believe George C. Scott was in it. Most remembered line: "You can't cheat an honest man."

Btw, wonderfully handsome man. Are we to assume that this is Goethe?
Did all men back then put their hand inside their jacket? Thought that was a Napoleon thang'.

waiting
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AnchorRe: Goethe to the Rescue
Farkel, Farkel,

Lemme hear you sparkle.

Anchor
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AnchorRe: Goethe to the Rescue
Farkel?

+
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COMFRe: Goethe to the Rescue
To be pleased with one's limits is a wretched state.

Hmmm. Why? Assuming that one has correctly perceived one's limits and they are, in fact, true limits: why would being pleased with them be a wretched state? I will admit that being "pleased" with a limit seems a bit odd; I think most of us would like to experience winged flight, for example. But why is it "wretched?" I might be willing to go with "naive" or "unmotivated," or perhaps "unimaginative." But "wretched?" I don't think so.

There's a lot to be said for acceptance. Of course, acceptance doesn't equate to being "pleased."

COMF


"Not unless fired upon, suh... not unless fired upon."
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MaximusRe: Goethe to the Rescue
Oh, hell. Guess folks would rather read opaque philosophy from Duns.

No mas.

Max
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COMFRe: Goethe to the Rescue
Now, Maxie, don't quit so quickly!

I read down through all of the quotes and found myself agreeing with them, thinking, "Yes, that's so... yes, I can see how that applies..." until I got to the last one. I couldn't get a grip on it; I didn't see his point. So I discussed it.

I guess it's easier to talk about a concept when you don't agree, than it is when you do. Hmm...

Anyway, don't write us off! The world needs un-opaque wisdom!

COMF
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Mommie DarkRe: Goethe to the Rescue
"Guess folks would rather read opaque philosophy from Duns."

No no no no no! Most of us would rather have root canal surgery without anesthesia than actually READ that crap Duns spouts! We just scan it to see if he has buried any factual information amongst the turds. SO far he hasn't offered any, except for some inadvertent clues as to his real identity; that and the fact that he has proven to be a hypocrite, dunning others for their alleged drinking habits then bragging about his own 'libation' as he posts.

Your posts, on the other hand, are rational, humane, often incisive, always germane, and eminently reasonable.

The reason his posts get more responses is the same reason a mosquito gets more reaction, when it lands on your arm, than a butterfly does.
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RationalWitnessRe: Goethe to the Rescue
Got Goethe? Here are some more ...
Nothing hurts a new truth more than an old error.

Nothing is more revolting than the majority; for it consists of few vigorous predecessors, of knaves who accommodate themselves, of weak people who assimilate themselves, and the mass that toddles after them without knowing in the least what it wants.

Confronted by outstanding merit, there is no way of saving one's ego except by love.

Being brilliant is no great feat if you respect nothing.

When you praise someone you call yourself his equal.

Ignorant men raise questions that wise men answered a thousand years ago.

We must always change, renew, rejuvenate ourselves; otherwise we harden.

Daring ideas are like chessmen moved forward; they may be beaten, but they may start a winning game.

He alone is great and happy who requires neither to command nor to obey in order to secure his being of some importance in the world.
Thanks for bringing up a worthwhile topic, Maximus. Much better than that 'daily text' I used to straitjacket my mind with each day.

Cheers,
Rational
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MaximusRe: Goethe to the Rescue
Hey, Maxissimus, bearing in mind the maxim above ...

A J. Wolfgang von G quotation applicable to me these days is: "Who fights with monsters must take heed lest he become one." "Gaze not long into the abyss, for the abyss begins to gaze into you."

Heavy stuff going down, craggy veterans inside just waiting.

Maximus, neither commanding nor obeying any more.

I still have nightmares of not making it to the dining room before hearing that somber: "Read the text, please." Knorr could never understand why at the end of the year Karl K had to work furiously to produce the daily text and comments for the yb. Told me, "All Karl has to do is one a day, or two every other day, and he would have them done at the end of the year." Karl, of course, professed doing his best work under pressure.

-
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hawkawRe: Goethe to the Rescue
Truth is a torch but a tremendous one. That is why we hurry past it, shielding our eyes, indeed, in fear of getting burned

It is amasing what fear will do.

hawk
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circeRe: Goethe to the Rescue
Here are some of my favorite philosophical quotes:

Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it. - Helen Keller

As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of being. - Carl G. Jung

Life is short and we have never too much time for gladdening the hearts of those who are traveling the dark journey with us. Oh, be swift to love, make haste to be kind! - Henri Amiel

Pursue some path, howver narrow and crooked, in which you can walk with love and reverence. - Henry David Thoreau

Happiness is not achieved by the conscious pursuit of happiness; it is generally the by-product of other activities. - Aldous Huxley

It is preoccupation with possession, more than anything else that prevents men from living freely and nobly. - Bertrand Russell

You'd think that self-knowledge would be fairly easy. After all, we have constant and immediate access to the quarry of our investigations. - Tom Morris

If a man speaks in the forest, and there is no woman around to hear him, is he still wrong? - Unknown author (Please realize that this quote pokes just as much fun at women as it does at men!)

circe
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RationalWitnessRe: Goethe to the Rescue
Hi Circe!

Here's another quote from Henri Amiel:
We are always making God our accomplice, that so we may legalize our own iniquities.
BTW, in response to your last quote/question, The Mrs. informs me that I would still be wrong, even if she were not there to remind me. ;^)

Cheers,
Rational
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Had EnoughRe: Goethe to the Rescue
Hello Maximus:

Please,Please, Please, don't banish us to the likes of Duns. I've stopped reading anything he posts just because like Mommie Dark describes he is like that pesky mosquito whose only affect on you is annoyance. I look at his words, or perhaps it is the arrogant tone in which they are written, as the cringing one does at hearing the sound fingernails running down a chalkboard.

I appreciate these thoughts...and the ones others have been prompted to supply.

I'm sure I am joined by many, when I say we have a high regard for the efforts you and your collegues are putting forth to "capture the mighty monster" these days.

That's why I began using the quotation of Margaret Mead in my signature. Her words rather sums up what is going on now and I have no doubt change will be brought about by this "small group of citizens"...(changing not the "world" but that which is trying to rule it and beat it into submission)

Had Enough

"Never doubt that a small group of citizens can change the world.
Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
...Margaret Mead
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waitingRe: Goethe to the Rescue
Howdy Max,

Since we've started a quote thread going on - I found this quote some time ago, and it just stunned me:

"All propaganda must be popular and its intellectual level must be adjusted to the most limited intelligence among those it is addressed to." wrote Hitler. "Propaganda which only aims at intelligent people will not accomplish anything. If you demand intelligence from the public, if you expect them to rise to a higher level, you will be disappointed." - Adolf Hitler

Another which is similar is:

It's not enough for me to have the intelligent vote of this country. I need the majority. Adlaid Stevenson

waiting
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waitingRe: Goethe to the Rescue
Hey Max!

I betcha when you see your thoughtful thread back up at the top, you'll think "well, thank gawd, someone here has some brains."

Ha........

Sometimes when reading Goethe I have the paralysing suspicion that he is trying to be funny. Guy Davenport

waiting
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Big TexRe: Goethe to the Rescue
Truth is a torch but a tremendous one. That is why we hurry past it, shielding our eyes, indeed, in fear of getting burned
Getting burned? Or perhaps it is fear of the light exposing something we want hidden.
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Phantom StrangerRe: Goethe to the Rescue

Nice post, maximus.

COMF, I'd rather live life as if I don't have limits and be wrong, than act as if I do and be right.

Now, I know this statement could be taken to the level of the ridiculous, and that's not what I mean. But far, far too often, we THINK we know our limits, and we are wrong. Too often, we decide that we're not capable of things that we see others doing - and if they can do it, usually we can too.

Someone once asked Henry Ford how to be more successful, and he replied, "Double your failure rate".
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