Franz stated something in this mind-blowing book which was definitely true for me.He stated (this is a poor paraphrase) that very early on during a "study", Witnesses can easily show what's in the Bible regarding God's name, the condition of the dead, living on paradise earth, etc. Once these are proven to a person's satisfaction, when the study moves on to more complicated matters, it is just easier to accept what isn't understood on the basis that so far, everything has seemed true. By now, there is an emotional investment -and everything up until now seemed fine, so.....................................let's swallow it all, and what is too difficult to swallow comfortably (blood? 1914?) just kind of gulp it down anyway. It's probably true....the WTS does know better, obviously. YOU didn't know God's name, did you? You didn't know the dead were conscious of nothing, did you? You didn't know about the resurrection, did you?As I said, that was poorly paraphrased. But in my case, absolutely true. I knew nothing of the Bible, I only knew Catholic dogma. Never fell for most of it, always felt it was a load of garbage. Now, I could clearly see what was stated in the Bible on very simple matters. Once I was convinced of a few basic things, the rest was easy; I just accepted even though some of it I disagreed with. However, I felt these "learned Bibl scholars" knew much more than I did. What a traumatic experience, then, to read how these "responsible, prayerful men with God's spriit" really came to their "understanding" of the Scripture.It's sickening, really.ISoCF is a MUST read.Sorry for the lack of eloquence; this is the best I can do right now.
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| berylblue | In Search of Christian Freedom | |
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| OICU8it2 | Re: In Search of Christian Freedom | |
The most inspiring book I've ever read. I wish I had read CoC sooner, like a decade ago. In Search of was so open and honest it seemed. I wish Ray was much younger, though. | ||
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| jst2laws | Re: In Search of Christian Freedom | |
Berryblue,This is a great subject. I like to add one of hundreds of goodies I noted in my book. Here is just something I underlined and typed in here to help get people going. Love and faith, the true 'rules' of the Christian, can reach innermost thoughts and depths of the heart. They can touch and affect every facet of life in a way that law and rules can never accomplish. Because of not being under law, the Christian is put in the position of showing what he or she really is at heart. And that alone counts with God. What did you like about the book?Jst2laws | ||
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| berylblue | Re: In Search of Christian Freedom | |
Well, I haven't read the book. I've skimmed it. Quite frankly, CoC left me in a state of shock.I have to say that Franz' books are traumatizing.Maybe it's just me.Rosemarie | ||
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| gumby | Re: In Search of Christian Freedom | |
YOU didn't know God's name, did you? You didn't know the dead were conscious of nothing, did you? You didn't know about the resurrection, did you? Merchandising at it's best! Convince people there are truths they haven't been told, and what they have been told is a lie. Actually with Christianity...........it's easy prey for anyone who wants to pick it apart and it's beliefs. The witnesses are one of the few that are not a white trash cult who capitolize on downplaying religion to gain converts and most people have many questions the witnesses are eager to supply answers for. They have answers for everything and people want answers.
I have to say that Franz' books are traumatizing. In what way?
BTW....excellent post rosemarie
Gumby | ||
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| DannyBear | Re: Re: In Search of Christian Freedom | |
Gumby,
****he witnesses are one of the few that are not a whit trash cult ****
I dunno Gumby.....ever really take a close look at a picture of ole Charles Taze? A whiter more stuffed shirt kinda guy, hard to find, even in his day.
The witnesses have a solid origin in American, white, protestant, adventist stock. It wasn't until the sixties that you could even pick through a gathering of jwdubs and see a little brown.
Taze and Rutherford, where much like other circus barker's who appeared on the scene in the early 1900's, Barnum another venue, but just as whacked out as the pastor.
Danny | ||
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| berylblue | Re: In Search of Christian Freedom | |
Gumby,Traumatizing because the books are destroying all my long held beliefs about the WTS .Although I have been researching since January, nothing I have read has so far has been as powerful. I can rationalize away much of the stuff I've read here (as well as other places), but what Franz writes cannot easily be pushed aside. It means that I have to seriously rethink most everything I believed in since I first started studying with the Witnesses.It's actually physically painful. My stomach is in knots, I'm near tears. I do believe all Franz has written, but I can't believe it. Do you understand what I mean?Rosemarie | ||
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| gumby | Re: In Search of Christian Freedom | |
It means that I have to seriously rethink most everything I believed in since I first started studying with the Witnesses. Thats what we call the" journey" around here......and it's a long haul for some!If you have been raised as a dub...( and I can't remember if you were) you really do have to re-learn much in life. For those who came into the cult later and then exited.......it's a little different I think. As far as the bible is concerned......if what you now know is what you learned from them.......then if christianity is what you follow........you definately need to re-think many things although as far as the bible is concerned....I think the witnesses had many things correct doctrinally, but as far as the N.T.message......they are cluless. I am surprised it was this late in your exit you discovered Rays books......or have you already read COC? His books do the trick for many because of the postition he was in, and the things he uncovered that would not have ever been known through any other person other than a GB member.(I don't think) Gumby | ||
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| jst2laws | Re: In Search of Christian Freedom | |
Rosemary, It's actually physically painful. My stomach is in knots, I'm near tears. I do believe all Franz has written, but I can't believe it. Do you understand what I mean? YES! And I doubt that the physical discomfort is a normal reaction to this psychological tramaof having so many cherished beliefs jerked out from under you. But then we recover and are better persons for facing reality.Jst2laws | ||
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| refiners fire | Re: In Search of Christian Freedom | |
Well Berylblue, I dont know why you criticize your eloquence. You are one of the most sincere posters here and its hard not to be moved by what one reads when you write from the heart. I know its all very traumatic . It was for all of us.But you have learnt the horrible truth- Noone can save your soul with a placebo religious pill. Not really.Noone except YOU. I know that many spend their entire lives in delusion unwilling and emotionally incapable of facing the realities of life, theyde rather dream dreams of utopian gardens and suchlike.Are you strong enough to face up to reality and create your own "godhood" and your own power? I think you are. | ||
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| plmkrzy | Re: In Search of Christian Freedom | |
Hi blue,I’ve struggled with it for years, in the form of a little inner voice that would look something like a little smurf in a little red devil suit sitting on my shoulder if I listened to how “the society” would chose to define it. The conditioning that takes place, once inducted, is powerful enough to convert persons of any religious background into believing they have finally found the true truth and there is no other. Imagine how deep these feelings are inside one who was born and raised as a JW. It is a tough struggle. There is a constant battle that lives inside between heart, intuition, reason, right, wrong, and fear of trusting ones own intelligence, like some virus or infection with no apparent cure in sight, anxiety takes the place of blood and oxygen. You know you’re alive because you’re always waiting for tomorrow to come so you can wait for another day, and another. Why? Because someday there will be a tomorrow that will bring you happiness and a reason to live. But until that day comes, you wait and wait and wait because there is nothing to be happy about now and nothing to live for now, nothing that would include you, except a belief that just around the corner will be that tomorrow that will bring meaning to your life with an abundance of never ending blessings. But until that final tomorrow gets here, you are not relevant. Moreover, if you dare think you are, you are being selfish like Satan, and we don’t want to be destroyed with him do we. Life revolves around Satan when you are a JW. It may sound a bit radical to say that but in reality how often did you think about Satan before you were a JW? | ||
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| DannyBear | Re: In Search of Christian Freedom | |
Hello Plum,Good to see you stuck around.Religion in general is designed ot offer the 'yellow brick road' of promises and rewards. Jw's seem to have refined it even more. Offering wonderful promises, yet at the same time deflating the individual ego (self worth) to the point of total reliance on the religion for every bit of joy or satisfaction in life.There is no wonder why we can safely ID the wtbs a very destructive CULT!Your words are exellent;***just around the corner will be that tomorrow that will bring meaning to your life with an abundance of never ending blessings. But until that final tomorrow gets here, you are not relevant.*** | ||
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| gumby | Re: Re: In Search of Christian Freedom | |
Just wanted to say hi to the Plummer Gumby | ||
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| hawkaw | Re: In Search of Christian Freedom | |
Just wanted to say there was some good points in this thread.
The price of making an "emotional investment".
Good one.
hawk | ||
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| Hamas | Re: In Search of Christian Freedom | |
I loved In search of Christian Freedom.Ray Franz holds a place in my heart; we have never met, or spoke, but If I had the chance, I would thank him from the bottom of my heart for what he has done for me. He is an incredible person; may God bless him in all that he does.In search was an amazing book. It blew my mind, as well. After my mother miraculously read CoC, she needed something to comfort her; Rays book gave that comfort. It offered hope when all seemed lost; it gave freedom back to Christianity. Ray is a Christian; and although I may not agree with him doctrinally, I fully support what he has done for thousands of people worldwide. I owe him much, but can repay little. All I can do is thank him; he is a spiritual master.God bless Ray Franz, and all those he has helped ! Hi Beyrl ![]() ![]() | ||
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| Axelspeed | Re: In Search of Christian Freedom | |
Just about all the points have been covered, but just to add my 2c...ISOCF in my opinion is a must read for any xjw who ever considered themselves an 'all the way in, fully indoctrinated jw.' COC helped greatly in addressing the gnawing doubts I had, but could never be crystalized because I never had the info. Also helped me confirm that the org was far less than claimed.
But ISOCF was a piece by piece dismantling, that helped to address the question and doubt that lurked in the back of my mind still..."With all the mistakes/mishaps/misguided efforts, what if they still are right?" The chapter on argumentation and manipulation is a must imo for any former died in the wool exjw, regardless of what belief system a person now holds. In order to move on, it was what was needed for me as a raised in jw. For those who choose to still follow Christianity, I believe that the view presented in ISO is a comforting one and one more in line with the spirit of Christianity.Doctrinally, I am at peace with my current position. The only ties I have that concern me are the emotional/family that are still in.
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| berylblue | Re: Re: In Search of Christian Freedom | |
Wow, such wonderful posts!!!! I will read them all properly later. Thanks.And no, I wasn't raised a JW. Got baptized when I was 29. So................I guess this first birthday I'm really celebrating on Aug. 12, I'm going to be 30!!!! (not 48)Rosemarie | ||
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| rocketman | Re: In Search of Christian Freedom | |
I gotta get one of them there books. I read COC, so it's only a natural progression to read ISOCF. | ||
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| blondie | Re: In Search of Christian Freedom | |
If anyone wants to thank Ray, just e-mail him at Commentary Press.email@commentarypress.comBlondie | ||
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| Nickey | ||
Hey, I'm getting ready to place an order for CoC for the first time.
How is "In Search of Christian Freedom"? Should I get it? I want to make sure I get the right edition if there's more than one, at least. | ||
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Gumby
