Raised in a religion that preached a massive, theocratic holocaust for the majority of mankind can leave you with more than a few mental and emotional scars.  I remember being terrified on New Years eve in 1986 (I was 9 yrs old) because of all the talk that that year was the "International Year of Peace." I was conditioned to look at world events as being a sign that the end is near, sound familiar? 

Well, times are bad.  Are they the worst ever?  Perhaps, at least in terms of dangers to the over all survival of our species.  Interestingly, I do not see humans as being any more "evil" the way the Society does.  If anything the enlightened world is more humane.  Were there talks of "human rights" or "women's rights" a couple hundred years ago?  "War crimes?"  Was this in human's vocabulary before the twentieth century?  If you were black, living in the South in the 1950's you could not eat at the same restaurant as a white person.   In this area, times are better, far better. 

But still, things are not good.   Like most everyone here I get a little twinge of fear whenever I hear the news, especially when I hear any talk of "peace and security" (btw...is there really any other way to word this concept?  I don't think so.) 

I've read "Signs of the Last Days -- When" by Carl Olof Jonsson.  It's a good read, but not great; his Christian belief makes a secular understanding of the subject impossible.  Anybody have any thoughts on this matter from both a historical/scientific point of view as well as a psychological point of view?  Any other good books you can think of?  Thoughts? 

Always curious,

Bradley

Hi Bradley!

The demise of the Roman Empire comes to mind. Took centuries; every generation for 300+ years had something "better" to look back on, and might well have been wondering "what is happening to the world?" Imagine grandparents and great-grandparents telling their family "In the good old days we ruled everybody and had more slaves than we could count, and now look what's happened--"

Reminds me of the proverb:Craig

Dude, you have to check out this site!  I recommend pouring over it.  It helped me a lot.  I saw where and from whom the uneducated/biased Russell got his ideas, and where those people in turn got their ideas.  Branch off into other areas of research at will.  Thre is an answer to it all.  Knowledge truly is power!

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/apocalypse/

 Hi Bradley,

Maybe re-reading Matthew 24:4-7 might help.  Reading it without the Watchtower bifocals.

"See that no one leads you astray.  For many will come in my name, saying, I am anointed, and they will lead many astray.  You will be hearing of war and rumors of wars.  See that you are not alarmed, for it must happen; but the end is not yet.  For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdometc., etc., etc.  The word "for" is an interesting preposition.  It implies a continuation of the precedingnot a new thoughtas the Watchtower will have you believe.  What follows the word "for" is a continuation of the previous, just a bit more expounded and/or explained.  The Watchtower bifocals will have you believe the word "for" is ushering a new, different, and distinct thought.  It is not.  It's an explanation of the previous thoughts for which NOT TO BE ALARMED.Inkie

Brad,

I was raised in the Borg and know of these haunting feelings. They are deeply programmed.

Peace within was found only after some serious inner questioning and soul searching.

Look closely at the universe, it's majesty and beauty. Look into the eyes of a small child. Look deeply within your heart.

Can the Source of all this beauty be a murderous vengeful entity? Is it truly possible for you or anyone to love and respect a god who will kill you if you don't?

There are solid answers in your heart right now.

Answers which will bring you peace.

But only you can go there and find them.

Forget what you have been taught about God, and go to the center of your personal sense of Being, and find out for yourself.

 

JamesT

Gary,

Actually, my life is going rather well.  I posted this topic because I am new to this board and like to get different people's opinion on the subject.  I walked away last year and received some counseling from a psychologist which helped tremendously.  From an intellectual, and now emotional level, I am healing.  Perhaps the tone of my writing made it sound as if my state of mind was worse than it is.  The "last days/apocalyptic" phobia resurfaces every now and then, but I am always able to think my way through it. 

Thanks for the concern,

Bradley

PS -- I do think it would be interesting to have a book which debunks a lot of the myths in apocalyptic minds, both religious and media-inspired. 

Hi Bradley,

: I was conditioned to look at world events as being a sign that the end is near, sound familiar?

It's part and parcel of the JW experience.

: Well, times are bad.  Are they the worst ever?

No. The 14th century was a lot worse. At least a third of the entire population of the world died within a decade ,plus or minus, of 1355.

: Perhaps, at least in terms of dangers to the over all survival of our species.

Potential dangers are quite different from realized dangers. Sure, there is a lot more potential for destruction of the world by mankind itself today than ever before. But there is also a lot more realization of how horrendous that would be. The potential for destruction from traditional major destroyers is the same as always. To date, we have seen nothing of the massive die-offs that one would expect if the Society's traditional claims that earthquakes, pestilence, famine and war were much worse than ever. So, while there is danger, it does not come according to the Society's claims. Therefore their claims are valueless.

: Interestingly, I do not see humans as being any more "evil" the way the Society does.  If anything the enlightened world is more humane.  Were there talks of "human rights" or "women's rights" a couple hundred years ago?  "War crimes?"  Was this in human's vocabulary before the twentieth century?  If you were black, living in the South in the 1950's you could not eat at the same restaurant as a white person.   In this area, times are better, far better.

In the world as a whole, times are far better than 100 years ago. No need to go into details that are obvious.

: But still, things are not good.   Like most everyone here I get a little twinge of fear whenever I hear the news, especially when I hear any talk of "peace and security" (btw...is there really any other way to word this concept?  I don't think so.)

Of course there is. Note how the NWT phrases the scripture (1 Thess. 5:3):

"Whenever it is that they are saying: 'Peace and security!' then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape."

The operative words here are "whenever", "suddenly" and "instantly". The Greek word hotan translated by the NWT as "whenever" can be translated as "while, then, when, whenever, as long as, as soon as", and so forth. The word translated as "suddenly" is not an issue. The word inserted by the NWT as "instantly" is not in the original Greek, but it can be argued to be understood to be there, although it is certainly not necessary, and in the case of the NWT it is there mainly because of prior doctrinal considerations.

So, while it is possible that the scripture means, "at the precise point in time that they begin to say, 'peace and security', destruction is to be instantly upon them", other meanings can be gotten, for example, by the way the NASB renders the passage:

"While they are saying, 'Peace and safety!' then destruction will come upon them suddenly like birth pangs upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

Using "while" instead of "whenever", and not inserting "instantly", changes the meaning drastically. I think that the context supports the use of "while" over "whenever". Then the meaning is more like, "during a time when people are enjoying life and saying they have peace and security, destruction will come upon them suddenly and unexpectedly and take them unawares, just like when birth pangs unexpectedly come upon a pregnant woman." This interpretation is fully supported by Matthew 24:36-41, Mark 13:32-37 and Luke 21:34-36. The NWT's rendering creates conflicts with these passages.

: I've read "Signs of the Last Days -- When" by Carl Olof Jonsson.  It's a good read, but not great; his Christian belief makes a secular understanding of the subject impossible.

Not at all. I'm as secular as they come and I think that Jonsson's arguments are dead on. Naturally, because a good deal of his audience is heavy duty Christian, and so is he, his orientation is Christian. But he has enough integrity and objectivity, checked by secularists like me, to not let his Christian views influence the secularly oriented parts of his work.

: Anybody have any thoughts on this matter from both a historical/scientific point of view

As above. I think that the historical/scientific view is very well presented by Jonsson, and have never read anything else that even comes close. However, you might read my essay "The WTS and the End of the World" here: http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/index2.htm which deals with some aspects of earthquakes beyond Jonsson's comments.

: as well as a psychological point of view?

There's a book called When Prophecy Fails by Leon Festinger, which last time I looked was readily available in online book search places like www.bookfinder.com

AlanF

Bradley. 

I believe some may never fully let go of those feelings.  We had become so conditioned, that even after we have left, we may still have nagging doubts... " Oh my god, they were right and I was wrong ". 

In my case it was just time, that freed me of those thoughts.  I knew I was cured when the WTC attacks occured, and my first thoughts in that regard were " I wonder how the WTBTS is going to put their spin on this, and how many inactive dubs are going to be shocked and /or browbeat into returning to the KH".

I estimate we lost more inactive / undecided dubs, back to the WTBTS, then those who were actually killed that day.

" Millions Now Living Will Never Know "

xjw_b12

 

 

     

Hi Bradley,  Im glad you are doing okay.  Many of us lived with a sense of impending doom until we were well into our re-education. When we realized the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation  is just a book printing business masquerading as a religion and is knowingly perpetrating a giant fraud by claiming to channel directly with a ghost or a god, we lost our respect for the fears they worked so hard to install into our subconscious minds.

Lots of us lived with that feeling of impending doom as well as disrespect for the fragility if life.  

Many of us lived as end timers and did not plan for the reality of the future. We did not save for retirement. We did not consider our safety and health like we needed to. We did not appreciate our fellow man or build healthy relationships. We protected our delusions and superstitions long after we left association with our teachers. We were never really taught to live. We were taught to deny death and life and to prepare for a miracle or our own early deaths but we were not taught to survive life and old age on the planet.  

A parents job is to see that the child survives. The parent protects the child from irrational fears. The parents job is to see to it that the child is prepared for life on earth. My parents tormented and abused me. They instilled irrational fears of ghosts, gods and demons and a giant conspiracy between unseen spirits using me as a pawn. The caused me to fear my own thoughts and my own body.  

They discouraged me from being prepared for life in any way they could. They sent me to school and then they sabotaged my education by keeping me away from home 3 nights a week every week. They virtually never went to a school function and discouraged me from getting a secular education in any way they could. They lied to me and encouraged me not to be prepared for life and living. When I prepared myself, they ridiculed me.  

For me, the fear of impending doom went away after I researched the basis for that fear and found it to be a hoax.  

Best wishes to all. Welcome to all the newcomers. Every day I am amazed at how many are leaving the Publishing Corporation and finding us. By now they must be noticing lots of us are leaving.   gary