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kenpodragonSluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks


My normal day is usually pretty social. I meet a lot of people, have a few friends call me to see how my wife is doing in the pregnancy, and of course I post and read a few thoughts on the online message boards. I have friends from all over the country, and in fact a couple from around the world. Although, I still have one or two casual friends that still call themselves Witnesses. For the most part my life is pretty much Witness-free. My friends mean a lot to me, and I have often taken steps to do as much as I can to help them.The thing is, with all of the talk in my youth at Kingdom Halls of "worldly" people I have to ask, where are all the "Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks?"
 
Why do I wonder that? Well from what it seemed like in all of the Watchtowers, Awakes, Books and Talks. You would think that anyone that was not inside of the Kingdom Hall was completely lost. You would think that no one could do anything right in this life, if they did not follow the worlds of the society. They were all suppose to be terrible people, and people we would want nothing to do with. Yet when I left I did not seem to run into to many people like this. Of course, not all of my friends are these little angels in life, but neither am I. In all though something happened in the last few years, since I left the Witnesses. What happened to me?
 
It is the oddest thing. When I was writing this post, I thought about some of my friends. I do have some gay friends, and I have friends who some might feel sleep around to much, I have some friends who smoke (not just tobacco either), and some friends who drink a little to much. What I realized though, as I set here tonight, I did not really care what they did in their personal life. Because the people I know on the inside are some pretty damn good people. They love, and they cry. They hate and they scream. They joke and they laugh. Yet all of them have the same warmth when it comes to the way they hug and say hello and good-bye. To me they are all just pieces of this whole pie I call my life.
 
I guess what changed in me in this life, is that I stopped looking for the "Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks" because I stopped labeling people by the standards of others. I just see all of my friends, as just that "friends" and I am happy they see me the same way. It might seem hard sometimes to think that someone who was a self-righteous Witness would sit in a room at times with people of such sinful backgrounds and lives, from what they were raised in. I always say, "really it is no different from sitting in a Kingdom Hall, only these friends admit to doing it."
 
To me, the real definition of friendship. Is when you find what you like in another person and stop judging them for the things people say you shouldn't like. When you do that, you can't help but get along with a lot of people and feel pretty good about them and yourself. So as I sit here writing my post, and thinking of my friends. I really appreciate that I do not know any "Sluts, Drug Addicts or Drunks" because I do not know those titles anymore in my life. I only know the title that really matters, that these people are my friends.
 
My thought
 
Dragon
 
As an addition to this : I do some times feel concern for certain friends when they overdue things, and I have supported many to get help. In this thought above though, I am more going with the idea that Witnesses throw on these hateful titles to fast when the people had really never done anything that bad to deserve such outrageously cruel labels.

Edited by - kenpodragon on 18 October 2002 4:14:46

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WolfgirlRe: Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks

I noticed similar things after leaving. I look around and wonder where all the evil people are. Just about everyone I have met has been very kind and friendly. We all make personal choices, and no one should judge. So my husband swears a lot. So? So one of my friends occasionally smokes marijuana. Who cares? He's a good guy. I've met some really wonderful people, and I'm so glad to count them among my friends. They treat me far better than anyone at the KH ever did.

My now-husband offered to fly from England to the US (dropping everything) when my father admitted to sexually abusing me. My JW friends? Never heard from a single one of them.

Edited by - Wolfgirl on 18 October 2002 4:20:30

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blondieRe: Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks

Dragon said,
The thing is, with all of the talk in my youth at Kingdom Halls of "worldly" people I have to ask, where are all the "Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks?"

At your local JW KH, and I mean practicing not ex-ones.  I could never understand the "demonizing" of every non-Witness when I saw as much if not more immoral behavior at the KH.  You forgot the lying backstabbers which there are 10 times as many at the KH than outside.

 
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Granny LindaRe: Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks

Well, Hello and good morning.  I was looking for a post that I could jump right into, and found this.   I feel sorta 'devilish' at the moment.

The sluts, drug addicts and drunks are within, too.  Not all labels we might, and usually do, put upon others are foreign to many of us.  I understand your post, too.

People are the most interesting subject matter, eh, Dragon.

I was wanting to write about my 'labeling' of someone yesterday.  Just a normal, old grandmotherly type, that is full of venom and hyprocricy.  The type that you can pretty much guess that throughout their life were controlling, mean spirited, and judgemental.  

Hey, you know what?  If I were inclined I'd a put a darn 'curse' on the woman, I'd..naw.  She has already done that to herself.  Do I care about what happens to her?  No.  I admitted outloud that if she dropped over dead, no concern of mine.  Another thing; I really care even less about the fact that here is a person that has spent 70 some years in a thought system that runs contrary to anything sincere.  Or so is my opinion based upon experience from my life.  I can't even pity those types.  

I'd guess the politically correct way today is too acknowledge the other person has more rights then you do.  Well, in my book they don't.  Is everyone equal?  I'd think not.  If on the other hand each person is spiritual by Nature, then they'd best start showing me some hard evidence because I think they are sluts, drug addicts, and drunks.  But wait!  I get along better with those types after they have found recovery then I do those who think they have no problem with society, and yet sit in judgement of everyone.

Yeah, life is too cool.

Guess I'm rambling.  It's very early and the youngest grandchild will wake sooner then not...they go home today which is fine by this grandma, but as always, they will be missed.  Wonderful children, a delight to have around.

Granny

 

 

 
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KennesonRe: Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks

Dragon,

Great post!  Jesus certainly had no problems in associating with those whom the Pharisees considered sinners. Luke 15:1-2, Matt. 9:10, Mark 2:15,16 Here's how he treated a "slut."  Luke 7:37, 39 and he said they were going into the kingdom of God ahead of the chief priests and elders Matt. 21:31 

"The Son of man did come eating and drinking, still people say, 'Look! A man glutonous and given to drinking wine, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' "  Matt. 11:19
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Beck_MelbourneRe: Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks

Dragon

Another sensational post...where you once again force us to comtemplate on our jw definitions and compare them to our life on the outside. 

To quote you from a previous thread:

"We are a reflection of the love shined on us by others"

The others will come from any social group we choose, whether they be sluts, drug addicts or drunks all depends on us and our own definitions.   I don't think it really matters how other people classify our friends....its how we classify them that counts in the end. 

~Beck~
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yumbbyRe: Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks
I have to say that I was so blinded by the witnesses, that deep down I really believed that everyone that wasn't a witness was always fornicating, smoking, doing drugs or anything else bad I could think of, but now, I can't understand how I believed that bull. I know lots of worldly people, and my gay, bi-sexual, drinking pot using friends are so good to me and show me more love than the witnesses ever did. I now know worldly people who are all types, and I have found that by them not denying their true self and desires it allows them to have more humanity and empathy. They understand my shortcomings but don't judge me for it, they are still my friends, which is alot more than I can say for my so called "witness family". bunch of lying hypocritical bastards.
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BONEZZRe: Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks

Dragon.......I love threads that I can relate to.  When I walked away I was very fearful of the "outside"...but it was my two "worldly" friends who saved my life.  They helped me mentally and financially, no-questions asked.  None of my previous, so-called "friends" wanted anything to do with me.  The "worldly" people may smoke, drink or sleep around too much for our tastes but they have hearts that are open for business...Witless Drones are expected to give everything to "Mother".  I remember everytime I felt charitable, I would talk with an elder who would re-adjust my thinking so I would just give more to the "Worldwide work" or the "Kingdom Hall Fund" or...?  I think the average Dub is so over-worked and beaten down that they are afraid to help other people's true problems..afraid it might cause them to miss a meeting or slow them down in the "work"....and of course they are counseled against getting too involved in others problems...why?...Because it would take time away from selling their little crap-ass magazines.

It's been discussed before but everytime the word "charity" comes up, they twist it around to mean, more hours in service.  When was the last time you ever saw a Dubbie help someone on the outside in a charitable way?  The instances are few and far between.  I know I was one that would look at the poor lost individual and tell them their were social agencies available to help them, then walk away with a smug feeling know I was secure inside Jehovah's Organization.   Isn't this month supposed to be "Single Parent Month"?   Like they ever really gave a crap about single parents.  This whole special month of "free" magazines worldwide is, I believe, a feeble attempt to bolster their public image as a charitable organization...then they can be eligible for some of those big buck$ that Bush is going to be giving to the churches to take care of some of the social problems.  It's up to us to stop them...Guerilla Apostates against an Army of Assholes.   I'm sorry for the long post but I'm passionate about this particular point.  Thanks for letting me vent.

-BONEZZ
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AjaxManRe: Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks

Ladies and Gents,

Thanks to all of you for posting your views of us "worldlies" non-JWs (as I am one).   I am glad and happy that you are all pointing out on this board that we are far from being all those things vilified by the KH's.

Anyways, before I continue and start hijacking this thread, I am gonna stop here and just say to all of you who just posted on this thread: THANK YOU for posting your views about us.   LOTSA THANKS to KenpoDragon as he started the thread so as to let anybody who's still "in" but with doubts that the world outside the KHs is not as bad or as evil as the KHs portray.

regards and thanks,

Ajax
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TRRe: Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks

 Quite honestly, I have very few close friends. I don't get close to people who have drinking, drug and slut problems. I don't agree with those lifestyles, and don't want the influence it may bring, especially to my teenage kids.  I suppose if I "widen out"(tm) I could find more decent friends, but I'm just too damn busy with family, work and projects to feel the desire to have more friends.

TR

Edited by - TR on 18 October 2002 11:5:2

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DismemberedRe: Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks

Hey TR

heck w/it stay home and practice. Is that a Gibson?
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Room 215Re: Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks

Right on Kepno,

          This business about the ``world'' being a irredeemable monolith of selfishness, immorality and violence is one of the most pervasive myths of JW culture. Still, it's the one that any JW who takes just a little time to expand his horizons just a bit beyond the narrow confines of his/her Kingdom Hall, knows is false. 

           For even loyal JWs who refuse to consider the evidence about the WTs involvement with the UN, its shameful record on child molestation and the lies in its revisionist version of WT history, but who work and live among basically honest, decent people, this is the one aspect that often gets them wondering about the validity of the JW worldview.  After all the evidence is right in front of their noses.
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Tinkerbell4125Re: Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks
My partying day's are over. I think there comes a time when everyone should grow up!  I think my friends reflect that also. Even though I have alot of friends and family, I can honestly say that I only have a few close friends, people that I can depend on to be there when I really need them. Recently having surgury, I have really seen who my true friends are. CC is truly my best friend!  Since I've been out of the WTS, I have found more GOOD people than I ever could have imagined.
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Tinkerbell4125Re: Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks
p.s.  T.R.  how are those great kid's of yours!  Hope the family is doing good.
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SloBoyRe: Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks
The dichotomy was amazing; the Dubs would spend many hours at their meetings profiling "wordly" people in the most negative way and then expect their members to go out and show these ones great love. And they can't understand why field service hours are down.
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SloBoyRe: Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks

Hey yumbby, don't beat around the bush, just tell us what you think of the "Witness family".
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TRRe: Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks

 Hey Dis,

It's actually a Samick copy of a Gibson.

 Tink,

everyone is doing super! The eldest is in college(freshman with junior status), the middle son is doing well as a junior(marching band, jazz band, etc.) Youngest is a freshman and taking dance lessons. She also wants a piano, so we're looking for one right now. She plays her Yamaha keyboard very well, but would like a piano.

TR
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ValisRe: Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks

Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks? Hey! I resemble those remarks..*LOL* ...Another good post from kenpo.

Sincerely,

District overbeer of the "Faithless and Indiscreet" class
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funkyderekRe: Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks
where are all the "Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks?"
Maybe you're just not looking hard enough. I know some great clubs...
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BendrrRe: Sluts, Drug Addicts and Drunks

Take 100 worldly people and a congregation of 100 dubs and you'll likely find that the percentages of each group that are sluts, drug addicts, and drunks are pretty close or even higher in the dubs.  Especially among the teens and single 20-somethings.

Mike.
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