In light of a recent thread by ozzie showing the wt reaffirming salvation by works, I wanted to put forward a post questioning what a christian is.

My own belief is that christianity is about kindness that marginalises the fears surrounding any self-cost (any, even spiritual - I believe that's a secret truth). The belief in salvation by works is the belief in a trade - a buying and selling.  The very term, 'kindness', has been brought into the language of trade by jwism. What in the world is "undeserved kindness"?  Is it the other type of 'kindness'? 

Another thread regarding 'why there is not sufficient biblical proof' , highlights the type of negotiations that are involved before the trade takes place -  nailing Him down before lifting Him up, then the labour  -  and that is a real killing off of what is christian.

It is my firm belief that the 'seeking for a sign' and subsequent earning of heaven (finding the 'true' religion to work for) are parts of a trade, of what is thought of as love -  but Love is not even known. The better and higher up in that business world one gets, the darker is the delusion when hearing the salutations at marketplaces from without and within. 

The christian, like the Samaritan, gives love without heeding consequence, believing in Love - even believing against hope.

May christians always upend the tables in the temples.

paduan

 

Edited by - a paduan on 4 September 2002 21:32:9

And they are good..... but not christian    ??

Anyway, that is a point  -  it is a choice of God - and being 'anointed' or 'blessed' is of course, simply a gift. And the 'qualities' that you pointed out are just that - the qualities of being that.

He or she knows by having received the promised holy spirit

How does anyone know who has received the Holy Spirit?    Ans.  By how their fruit tastes - not the amount of it, or even the look of it, or even the appearance of the tree - but the taste of it (see above post). That's how you'll know them.

"Taste and see" - it's an old song. 

paduan

 

Edited by - a paduan on 4 September 2002 22:19:2

Romans 8:14   For whoever are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God....you have received the spirit of adoptions as sons, BY VIRTUE which we cry, "Abba!  Father!"  THE SPIRIT HIMSELF GIVES TESTIMONY TO OUR SPIRIT that WE ARE sons of God. 

Thus, others do not know WHAT WE KNOW about ourselves and what we have received from the Father.  And thus, again, Christians (think biblical definition) make disciples of people of all the nations....  and then, when it is God's and Christ's will, they experience "the spirit himself giv[ing] testimony to [their] spirit...."

--Inkie

I apologise for all my editing: it often doesn't sound like I wanted to say when I read it back.

 

Edited by - a paduan on 4 September 2002 23:14:25

May you all have peace... and may I respond as well?  Thank you!

First, my dear brother in Christ, Inkie, my spirit bears witness to the truth of what you have stated here.  You, too, JM, have some "sayings" of truth.  I would like to expound on being a "christian", however, if you all will permit me and bear with me.

The simple answer:  One is not a christian simply because one wishes to be or thinks one is.  One is a christian because by means of asking, out of a clean HEART, and having one's prayer heard... or simply by God's will through Christ... and then being "found", chosen and cleansed... God and Christ dwell in such one, as a living stone in the TRUE temple of God, the "House" of Israel.  THAT... is a 'christian' or 'christ' person.

The "complete" answer:  A "christian" is a "christ" person or christ-ian; and, as Inkie stated, a "christ" (English), "cristo" (Greek) or "messiah" is one who is "chosen" or "anointed"... by God (ma-sy-JAH) by means of His Christ, mischaJah, or chosen/anointed one, my Lord, JAHESHUA (Joshua, in English, and meaning JAH "saves" - Jah eShua... pronounced "Yah e Shua"), MISCHAJAH (messiah, in English, and meaning "chosen" of JAH... pronouced "Mee sha Yah").  (Another example would be "hallel u JAH", or "allel u JAH", meaning "Praise you, JAH").  For JAH is the name of the Holy One of Israel:  JAH... of Armies... or "JAHVEH" (JHVH), pronouced "Yah Veh" (YahWeh").  Psalm 68:4

By means of the Holy Spirit, which is the Son of God as a spirit being ("the Spirit of Truth"; "I am the... Truth"), such one is searched for.  Why?  To become a "vessel" for God to dwell in.  You see, God used to dwell, by means of His spirit, in the temple at Jerusalem; however, when His Son was rejected as the "cornerstone" of His temple "not made with human hands", His spirit was removed from that place.  Subsequently, it needed another place to "dwell"... and thus was "poured out" by Christ... INTO people. And thus, the TRUE temple of God... is being built in this way:

Christ, and his FAITH... the cornerstone

The apostles, and their FAITH... the foundation

The rest of us, and our FAITH... the 'living stones'.

But such faith is not BLIND... but has an "assured expectation" of what it hopes for.  It is CERTAIN, not just that one is a son of God, but when God speaks to such one, through Christ, such one's FAITH... hears that voice and attitributes it to what it truly is:  God speaking through Christ... to US.  And God speaks to us... from within us... from His dwelling place within us.

Now, God's spirit cannot dwell... or reside... in just any old "vessel" (the vessel being the bodies that we now have).  It can ONLY reside in a "clean" vessel.  And clean vessels occur only one way:  by means of holy spirit.  BUT... that vessel can be somewhat clean BEFORE being further cleanses by holy spirit... by means of being devoid... of DECEIT... or HYPOCRISY... or HATRED.  If, however, a vessel is deceitful... hypocritical... or hateful... the "Light" of God's spirit, my Lord, cannot dwell in it; it is too "dark" and the dark will overpower the Light.

BUT... by means of the "water" that cleanses... the "blood" that cleanses... the SPIRIT of God that is His "life force" and "regenerative" power... one who is deceitful, hypocritical or hateful can be CLEANSED... so that God and Christ CAN dwell in such one.

One might tend to think that when I mentioned bodies, I meant the physical flesh that we have.  And, in part, I did.  However, the physical flesh that we have is 'corrupt'... unclean... by means of its inherent sin and death... sickness, aging and ultimately death.  However, we are not just our physical bodies, but SPIRITUAL beings RESIDING in physical bodies.  And so, it is not the PHYSICAL BODY that must be cleansed, but the SPIRIT that must be.  Thus, my Lord said to the Pharisees, who were concerned with the outward appearance, of themselves and others... "cleanse the INSIDE of the 'cup'".

Okay, so let's say you are 'unclean', in that you are... a hypocrite.  You judge and condemn others while you yourself exist in sin and error.  You tolerate less from others than you wish them to tolerate from you... and you look down on them as inferior, considering yourself to be more.  You judge them as "unclean", while you yourself do, think and desire things that only you and God (and perhaps one or two more) know of... and are themselves unclean.  You, who are just as "sinful" as the next one.  What you DO is STOP... you stop your hypocrisy, your judging, your deceit.  You PURIFY YOUR HEART.  How?  Love, a fruit of God's spirit is a good way to start.  Kindness and long-suffering are good, too.

Okay, let's say you are dishonest, cheating those who do you good, taking advantage of others, abusing widows and orphans by talking them out of their little pittance.  Or you take from and/or harm others with no care  or thought of the harm to them.  What you DO is STOP... you stop your extortion, your abuse, your greed.  You CLEANSE YOUR HANDS.  Again, love... can help to overcome this 'weakness'.

You can overcome anything that makes you hateful, deceitful, hypocritical and unloving by ASKING for one or all of the "fruits" of God's spirit:  love, joy, peace, faith, kindness, mildness, goodness, long-suffering and self-control.  One or more of these will fit your "need"... to be "clean."  And there is no "law" against these things.

Once you are CLEAN... then God's spirit, by means of Christ... AND the spirit of Christ... will "come and make [their] abode"... or come and dwell... IN YOU!

OR... if He chooses... God Himself, by means of Christ, can cleanse you.  Think Jeremiah, Moses, Saul of Tarsus, Zacchaeus... as well as those cleansed in the flesh!  "Living water"... or holy spirit... can cleanse ANYTHING... even that which H20 cannot.

Okay, so now God and Christ have 'chosen' you and you have been 'cleansed'.  What then?  Well, they come INTO you, into your vessel... and "grow" there.  Christ is "root", the "tree" of Life... Sprout!  So, as they reside there, YOU... bear MORE "fruit"... that which was mentioned above.  You love more, have more faith, more joy, etc., etc., etc., until Christ has become "full" in you. 

BUT... you may also have the privileges of USING that spirit of God which is now IN you... to do the things that God Himself, by means of Christ, would and could do:  You may be able to heal the sick; you may be able to hear into the spirit realm; you may be able to speak in tongues, interpret tongues, etc., etc., etc.  You may receive great wisdom and knowledge... whatever "gifts" the Spirit deems well to be "with" you.  And you MANIFEST such gifts... not upon yourself... but upon OTHERS... in LOVE... which is the 'fulfillment' of the New Covenant.

How does one KNOW one has been 'anointed', received holy spirit?  Several ways:

1.  One's spirit bears witness with God's spirit, so that when that spirit is active, one KNOWS it... and at times even FEELS it.  We were taught, unfortunately, by the 'hired man'... the WTBTS... that such does not occur.  We were misled.

2.  One HEARS that spirit speak to one.  We were taught, unfortunately, by the 'hired man'... the WTBTS... that such does not occur.  We were misled.

3.  By always manifesting the FRUITS of that spirit, one is able to manifest the GIFTS of that spirit, as it is given to them.  We were taught, unfortunately, by the 'hired man'... the WTBTS, who themselves possess no such fruits and therefore cannot manifest the gifts of them... that such does not occur.  We were misled.

And there are many other ways to "tell" as well... but these are the most basic ways.  There is, of course, a caveat:  it would be nice if once chosen always chosen, but Judas proved that to be untrue.  How?  By his deceitful hatred for the Master:  he preferred gold and the glory of men over the life of our Lord, one who did him no harm, but only showed love toward him.  By means of this hatred, he showed himself to be, NOT a son of God, but a child of the Devil. 

In contrast, the TRUE sons of God not only love their brother(s)... and their neighbor(s)... but MUST love their ENEMY... as well.  If they fail in this, then they put themselves in line to be judged... with a much heavier judgment than any others.  Why?  Because in keeping to hatred, they do not "esteem the value" of the blood of Christ, by which they were "bought", so that they could be "chosen", and after being chosen "cleansed" so as to "render sacred service in the temple"... as of little value.  Since it has no value to them, as manifested by means of their 'works' (begetting hatred) or LACK of 'work' (not feeding, clothing, caring for those in need - i.e., widows, orphans, the hungry, the poor, etc.), then it has no "value" to cleanse... or redeem them.

One is not a christian simply because one wishes to be or thinks one is.  One is a christian because by means of asking, out of a clean HEART, and having one's prayer heard... or simply by God's will through Christ... and then being "found", chosen and cleansed... God and Christ dwell in such one, as a living stone in the TRUE temple of God, the "House" of Israel.  THAT... is a 'christian' or 'christ' person.

I, myself, SJ, have spoken it to you just as I have heard it from my Lord and master, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, who is the Son of the Holy One of Israel, whose name is JAH... of Armies... by means of holy spirit.

Your servant, and a slave of Christ to time indefinite,

SJ

 

Dearest A Paduan... peace to you!

You said:  "I don't think that darkness ever overpowers light."

Ahhh, it can, my dear one, when one LOVES the darkness rather than the Light.  The Light exists in love, dwells and manifests himself THROUGH it, by means of holy spirit.  If, however, one loves the darkness... rather than the Light... then darkness will indeed overpower that Light's... light.

 

John 3:19-21

John 8:11; 1:3-9

John 14:23

Romans 8:9

True, we can "conquer the evil with the good,"; however, it truly depends on what... or rather whom... one CHOOSES as one's "master":  The Darkness... or the Light.   For the flesh resides in darkness and there is not much we can do about that.  But the Light CAN reside in us, in the spirit... and it is ENTIRELY up to us, after such being 'chosen' to BE a vessel of light... as to whether it... he... "remains" in us... and us 'in' it... him.

 

Genesis 1:3-5

John 15:1-7

I bid you the greatest of peace, dear A Paduan, as well as issue to you the same invitation issued to all, that which the Spirit and the Bride KEEP saying:

If you are wishing, if you are hearing... if you are thirsting, then, "Come!", you, too... and

"Take 'life's water'... free!"

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SJ

 

Edited by - AGuest on 5 September 2002 10:41:9

Inkie,

It is remarkable how something so simple and basic is grasped by so few. Keep up the good work.

Joseph