Five Questions To Ask The JW At Your Door

by silentlambs 23 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  silentlambs

  Below was a letter to editor that was printed in the Paducah paper. I thought it might be relevant now as JW's are defending their position on child abuse as being OK. It all boils down to the FIVE QUESTIONS. If the typical JW can answer the five questions truthfully then they are forced to admit there is a problem. If they choose to lie, then they are contributing to the "pedophile paradise" by their efforts in defending WT Policy. I encourage all to distribute these questions far and wide and demand JW's everywhere face reality and stop defending a policy that protects child molesters. If you look on the front page of my website you will see the "response to JR Brown" button at the top on the home page, there you can get the "in writing" answers to the five questions posed. The letter is as follows:

  I was recently mentioned in the public media as a minister who resigned because of not condoning the church policy of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society which, in my opinion, protects pedophiles within the organization. Local Watchtower officials have chosen to respond to local congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses with a local needs talk that basically requires the following of its members:

  1. Forbidding church members to speak with me about this matter.

  2. Forbidding me to speak with anyone within the church with the threat of disfellowshipment.

  3. Telling church members I have been untruthful about the facts.

  4. Instructing church members to tell anyone they meet in door-to-door witnessing work that I have lied about Watchtower policy with regard to pedophiles.

  The question that begs to be answered is, who is telling the truth? Does the Watchtower organization really protect pedophiles? I would like to offer you, the public, five simple questions to ask any Jehovah's Witness you meet to define what the truth is.

  1. If a pedophile were to move into your congregation, would you be informed?

  2. If a pedophile molested your child, would you be allowed to warn other parents in your congregation?

  3. If a pedophile denied he molested your child, and you could not produce two witnesses to the act of molestation, would the church discipline him/her in any way?

  4. If the state where you reside does not require reporting a pedophile who has molested a minor, will church officials report it?

  5. If, as an adult, you charge an elder with molesting you when you were a child and he denies it, would he discontinue serving as an elder?

  The truthful answers to the above questions are no, on each account. If any Jehovah's Witness says otherwise, he/she is not being truthful.

  I base the answers to the questions above not on my opinion, but my personal experience with Watchtower Legal Department, Watchtower Service Department, letters to body of elders and the personal experience of those whose children have been molested within the Watchtower organization.

  If this is the reality for Jehovah's Witness congregations, then I ask you, the public, are pedophiles protected within the Watchtower organization?

  silentlambs

  Edited by - silentlambs on 9 June 2002 21:9:33

  Edited by - silentlambs on 9 June 2002 21:12:14

  Edited by - silentlambs on 9 June 2002 21:14:0
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  dungbeetle

  funny thing about this,

  question 1,2 and 4 they would answer 'ye' if it were a non-witness...

  And Watchtower still is not being candid with the flock. It is the law in every state and the Federal Government that parents must report if their child is molested. This would include an elder IF THAT ELDER IS THE PARENT OF THE CHILD. (or the elder's wife for that matter). This may even include a step parent living in the same house as the minor child.

  None of this is explained to the R and F Witneses, and just so everyone knows; when the elders stand up in front of the congregation and read that disgusting letter where "it is okay if the parents/victim reports the assault" this is conspiring Witness parents to subvert the law of the superior authorities.

  No, I don't think the government is going to put 1 million JW.s in jail, or even 77,000 elders, or even the 9-11 member Governing Body.

  That would cost a lot of money. There's a far far better way: Pull their tax exemption.

  RUN WATCHTOWER RUN THE TAX MAN COMETH
• 

  Liberated

  Thanks so much.

  Even if they answer untruthfully, it gives them something to think about later, so ask away anyway.

  For instance, the 1st one, they may not know if they would be informed or not, but they should begin

  to think that, Yes, they do need to be informed. And if they know they won't be, then they need to ask

  why not.

  Libby
• 

  Pathofthorns

  Bill, I think your questions have a measure of merit but there are significant "loopholes" in the questions that personally I don't think make them the "homerun" you are hoping.

  1. If a pedophile were to move into your congregation, would you be informed?

  I wonder how a congregation can in good conscience have a convicted molester sit in the body of a KH with so many children around. This seems to be a dilemma that JW's face, given that a molester who has been convicted and served his sentence would be entitled to do so based on the Christian principle that Christ's sacrifice has allowed his sins to be forgiven.

  Bill, how would you propose JWs deal with a convicted JW molester who has served his sentence and now wishes to fulfill his role as a "Christian Witness"? What does the congregation do with these people? And is there really a significant number of CONVICTED molesters that are JWs where this scenario is realistic?

  2. If a pedophile molested your child, would you be allowed to warn other parents in your congregation?

  We've already discussed Bill that you could only warn parents if there has been a conviction, otherwise that could be slander, which is illegal. You could state that you have filed a complaint with the authorities.

  3. If a pedophile denied he molested your child, and you could not produce two witnesses to the act of molestation, would the church discipline him/her in any way?

  You have to keep in mind whether you would like to be disciplined on the word of ONE person's testimony. To discipline someone for a crime, there must be some sort of PROOF and it is generally accepted that more is needed beyond the testimony of ONE person. I think a person's privileges should be immediately suspended until the authorities have carried out an investigation and determined whether there is merit to the charges.

  4. If the state where you reside does not require reporting a pedophile who has molested a minor, will church officials report it?

  The real problem here is with the law itself. Unfortunately the WT policy is in compliance with these laws and does not go beyond them at the present time.

  5. If, as an adult, you charge an elder with molesting you when you were a child and he denies it, would he discontinue serving as an elder?

  Maybe the elder is truthful and he really didn't do it. Should he be punished for something he didn't do?

  Bill, I would like to hear what you feel should be done with regard to the scenarios you present in your questions. I'd also appreciate your thoughts on what JWs should do with molesters who have served out their sentences and still wish to be JWs. Thanks...

  Path
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  Princess

  Path, if a convicted child molester moves into my neighborhood, the law states that the entire neighborhood is told everything. Where he lives, his name, his picture. Why can't the congregations do the same?

  If someone molested your child, would you really be worried about slander? I wouldn't. I'd tell all my friends and anyone who came near the person. Sue me, I'd rather pay than have that on my conscience.

  Regarding number three...are you kidding me? I can't believe you even tried to rebut that.

  And then number 5, what if the elder is lying? Why are you defending them?

  Rachel
• 

  dungbeetle

  This is typical Pathofthorns stuff, ever since he is first coming on the board. Go check all his posts, especially the ones invovling Silentlambs.

  <shakes head puzzled> I never understood it myself.
• 

  OUTLAW

  Hey Dungbeetle,its no mystery.Path would like to toss a wrench into Bills work at every opportunity.Anything to take Bills mind off of Silent Lambs.Look at his posts regarding Silent Lambs.This retarted post of his is a good example.He`s up to no good,plain and simple...OUTLAW
• 

  Nanoprobe

  Path, I believe you are the Devils Advocate, not necessarily a bad thing, definitely something the Watchtower should have always have had on staff. Honest questions that challenge a position encourage us to reexamine our policy.

  Quote:

  Bill, how would you propose JWs deal with a convicted JW molester who has served his sentence and now wishes to fulfill his role as a "Christian Witness"? What does the congregation do with these people? And is there really a significant number of CONVICTED molesters that are JWs where this scenario is realistic?

  I know of one current case where a CONVICTED sex offender has returned to the hall of his victim, this is a recent development and he has not yet caused problems. Only emotional distress for the victim and her friends. As Princess has pointed out State law reguires warning the Pedophiles neighbors, why because sex offenders commonly repeat their crimes. You can undoubtly do the research on this point yourself.

  I also know of a case where a Confessed molester was forgiven by the elders, allowed to go on bible study activity with his wife and there molested the householders two little girls. He is now CONVICTED, I am not sure if the congregation is letting him have another chance or not.

  Clement Pandela admitted to molesting little girls for 40 years. Fitzwater had molested at least seventeen.

  Quote

  We've already discussed Bill that you could only warn parents if there has been a conviction, otherwise that could be slander, which is illegal. You could state that you have filed a complaint with the authorities.

  I found out that warning parents even with a CONVICTION is considered slander. Check the insight book under Gossip (includes slander topic) . In my case: he is a registered sex offender, the state website caveats read: the information is public information to be used by anyone for any reason. Legally it is not slander, according to my three-volume dictionary it is not slander, but according to the elders IT IS SLANDER! Why?

  Because the Insight Book vol I page 990 states revealing confidential matters to others who have no right to know is slander. And who decides if others have a right to knowwell, the elders. The Insight Book also states that a person may be turned away from his friends because of some defamatory remark about them and enmities and divisions may develop. I dont doubt if I warn the young father that this friend is a pedophile it will cause divisions. I dont doubt that if the congregation finds out that he was in prison for assaulting that beautiful child it will cause enmities.

  Its late in my time zone and I must go. Also sorry I don't have an HTML program right now.

  Possibly you have been in a situation of being wrongly accused, but I would suggest you read some of the guest book at Silentlambs.

  I dont doubt you and I will talk again.

  Edited by - Nanoprobe on 10 June 2002 1:24:11
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  LoyalLeon

  path, I agree with your reasoning.

  This is a highly emotional subject. But thie does not mean to loose our power of reason.

  1. If a pedophile were to move into your congregation, would you be informed?

  Would you be informed in any other religious denomination, if a pedophile moved into your vicinity?

  2. If a pedophile molested your child, would you be allowed to warn other parents in your congregation?

  Adding to path's comment, most of molestation cases occur within the own family, 2nd thought.

  3. If a pedophile denied he molested your child, and you could not produce two witnesses to the act of molestation, would the church discipline him/her in any way?

  Besides the fact that he would be disciplined (at least two elders would convene with him, and he would be under 'observation' by the elders, in my country (which is not the FI) there have been lately many allegations of child molestation which later where found out to be faked. So before disciplining, it is surely good to have substantial evidence, not only an accusation. BTW, two victims are two witnesses according to current policy.

  4. If the state where you reside does not require reporting a pedophile who has molested a minor, will church officials report it?

  Who needs the elders to do reporting, you could do yourself?

  5. If, as an adult, you charge an elder with molesting you when you were a child and he denies it, would he discontinue serving as an elder?

  See my comment to question N 3.

  Just giving it a thought.

  LL
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  Pathofthorns

  I just hate to see a new person come here and think they will go to their elders with these 5 questions thinking they are hotstuff and will put them in their place.

  The reality is, especially with how the Society has recently handled this issue in a relatively public manner within the congregations, this is a very difficult issue to argue with most elders, including the more open minded ones.

  They may concede mistakes were made in the PAST or that mistakes happened in ISOLATED INCIDENTS, but I doubt you will convince an elder to the point where he says "you know, i think you are right. The present policy doesn't go far enough".

  You see, most people including Witnesses don't like molesters and wouldn't cover for one and the letter read to the congregations uses these strong terms. So when you go and talk to a Witness like he is somehow covering for pedophiles and making light of the crime, they think you are absolutely nuts... Sourgrapes and nitpicking and all that.

  I don't believe this issue is the magic bullet that will get these people to start thinking but probably has been very effective in making sure people won't join anytime soon. The Society has clouded the issues too much now. And about the worst thing you can do is go in with your guns blazing thinking you're going to set someone straight or make a point with them. Back to the slow, drawn out and tedious approach..

  Path