This is sort of a continuation of threads on dubs and how they are conditioned to discipline their children. Someone questioned whether the society actually encouraged dubs to whup their children. I only had enough time to dig up a few salient quotes from the WT magazine. There are many others, including one where Fred Franz stated that some hard whacks to the backside was the best "medicine" of all. I wrote an article on this years ago, with a whole litany of WT quotes, but alas, did not save it.

I've seen enough children smacked and slugged and pinched and whupped in the Kingdom Halls to know that is EXACTLY what the WTS has encouraged. These are older quotes, and as I said, I haven't the time to dig out newer ones. Remember, the collective conscienceness of dubs takes a long time to change, even after the society has dropped or softened one restriction or another. How many dubs still think giving to charities or seeing a psychologist is somehow still "wrong?" How many children are still routinely whupped during a meeting, or taken to the bathroom or outside the Hall during a meeting and beaten?

*** w54 1/15 49 Rearing Children in the New World Society ***
Recently a leading New York newspaper ran a series on teen-age crime and gang wars, and, after noting the rise of progressive methods of child training that all but discard discipline, said: "Many of those fighting teen-age crime are convinced this lack of discipline is to blame for many children refusing to accept normal standards of behavior." J. Edgar Hoover has investigated the causes of juvenile delinquency and claims ninety per cent of it is traceable to lack of parental discipline. A Brooklyn court judge contributes this caustic comment: "I think we need the woodshed for some young folks. But that is not considered fashionable now. Now we are told you must not strike a child; you may be stunting a genius."

6 But is there springing up around us a bumper crop of unstunted geniuses? Rather are we not reaping a record harvest of juvenile delinquents?

Here the society has plainly implied that unless children are whupped, they will be a "harvest" of juvenile delinquents.

*** w54 1/15 54 Disciplining Children for Life ***
That brings us to discipline, and forces a facing of that hotly controversial question: to spank or not to spank.

2 Many child psychologists put a "hands off" sign on children, as did one who said: "Do you mothers realize that every time you spank your child you show that you are hating your child?" Jehovah says: "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him." A spanking may be a lifesaver to a child, for Jehovah says: "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. If you beat him with the rod you will save his life from Sheol." Again, "Blows that wound cleanse away evil; strokes make clean the innermost parts."

In other words, BEAT THAT CHILD!

*** w54 1/15 55 Disciplining Children for Life ***
So it is with children. Some are more sensible than others; some are meeker than others. A rebuke may discipline them more than a whipping would others who are more stubborn and in whose childish heart may be bound up a more than usual amount of folly.

5 Parents, if this is the case with your child, be patient.

So, if your kid is "meek," then rebuke him. Otherwise BEAT THE HELL OUT OF HIM.

*** w54 1/15 57-62 Disciplining Children for Life ***
If you children have been the subjects of our discussion, it is because you are the objects of our affection. All right, you say, but if you grownups are so fond of us what is all this talk about discipline, and especially spanking? Well, with you children that does touch a tender spot, does it not? But to help us get to the bottom of the matter let us look at the animals that you children love. Jehovah's wisdom is reflected in his creations, so to look to animals for instruction is not to lower our thinking to their level, but to lift it to God's thoughts...

"Remember children, we love you, but:

18 There is no juvenile delinquency in the animal realm, because there are no delinquent animal mothers. They do not spare the paw and spoil the young, but spank to preserve the young. They would die fighting for their young, just as your parents would die for you; yet they spank their young, just as your parents may spank you. In the woods the first mistake is often the last, and if the young animals disobeyed their mothers they would become the main course on a woodland menu and end up in another animal's stomach. So, while it may not be pleasant for them to be spanked, it is better to be beaten than to be eaten...

"Animals beat their young, therefore, so can we."

27 You parents know what you must do. You children know what you must do. Jehovah knows what he will do. If we obey him, he will do things for us. If we disobey him, he will do things to us.

WOW! We have the triple whammy here! Parents: you MUST beat the shit out of your children, or Jehovah will KILL you. Children: you must take it, or Jehovah will KILL you.

*** w56 5/15 305-6 Youth in the New World Society ***
5 As an illustration of child rule in the home, this occurred in a Christian home. The child pleaded and raised a fuss about a certain type of food it wanted and did this in a demanding way. The mother yielded and prepared the food. When the food was set before the child he decided he did not want it after all. The mother coaxed, but when the child feigned illness the mother took the food away. Under his breath the child was heard to say: "Well, I really got out of that one!" In this instance there was no discipline and the child was developing the trait of selfishness and was becoming self-centered. Parents may not always realize it, but children test them too. An instance to show this occurred when a four-year-old boy, when his food was set before him, threw it on the floor when the mother stepped out of the room. A mild scolding resulted, whereupon the mother placed more food before him. This was treated similarly in the absence of the mother. It was explained to him that some day he would be grown and would have children of his own, and, when asked what he would do if his child threw his food on the floor, he unhesitatingly responded: "I would whip him." He knew what was right and that proper corrective measures should have been administered. From an educational viewpoint he must have been somewhat disappointed in his parents. Children in similar circumstances could not look to their parents as a proper example of rearing children.

Beat, beat, BEAT that child, folks! They WANT you to beat the crap out of them. If you DO NOT DO THIS, they will be "disappointed" in you! What idiocy!

*** w56 10/15 637 Children Respond to Discipline ***
Children Respond to Discipline

A mother writes regarding her efforts at training four children: "I thought I had tried everything, as the saying goes, to make my children behave, still they were rebellious and antagonistic in our everyday relations. I had been a witness of Jehovah for five years, but my husband was violently opposed and I was forbidden to read any of the Watch Tower publications to the children. When it was stressed that it was the parents' responsibility to see that children had daily Bible instruction I decided to set aside time for daily Bible reading. This raised a howl of protest from my boys, ages 7, 5 and 3, as it always seemed to come at their most enjoyable time. After the account of creation they lost interest and the howls grew louder as I turned off the television every night and announced it was time for Bible reading. Many times I sat with the Bible in one hand and the rod of correction in the other..."

I'm sure that child grew up to be a well-adjusted psyhopathic child-abuser himself.

Farkel

"When in doubt, duck!"

Lilacs reminded us:

Stupid bible writers didn't know about one inch thick electrical power cables.

Yeah Farkel,

Beat the evil out of your child, is the commandment from Jehovah:

And take a look at the text around that picture:

*** w63 8/15 497 Each One Will Render an Account ***
7 If parents are to render a good account to God for the way they bring up their children, they must apply Jehovah’s discipline in love but with firmness. This calls for a positive discipline, not a lazy kind in which parents bribe their children into good behavior. Firm discipline means that there will be no parental pussyfooting. The child needs to know what his parents stand for and that they cannot be shaken from Jehovah’s principles by any amount of arguing, wheedling or crying. Though firm, Jehovah’s discipline is applied in love, so that it is consistent, reasonable and righteous. The loving parent realizes that children are not perfect and will make mistakes. If children are badgered by threats of punishment for every little imperfection, little mistake or accident, then they become irritated. Paul said: “Do not be exasperating your children, so that they do not become downhearted.” (Col. 3:21) If children are exasperated by their parents, they become nervously deranged and cannot benefit from reproof. Hence the loving parent, though firm, is reasonable. The child can appreciate reasonableness. Make explanations to the childish mind. Then the child can go along with it, knowing that it is being led in the direction that Jehovah God directs.
8 All children of Adam need correction, and at times firm discipline requires the rod, in the administration of pain. “Foolishness is tied up with the heart of a boy; the rod of discipline is what will remove it far from him.” (Prov. 22:15) Jehovah’s discipline is thus not a watered-down discipline such as that advised by some worldly authorities who would always hold back the rod. But the literal rod is what is basically meant at Proverbs 23:13, 14: “Do not hold back discipline from the mere boy. In case you beat him with the rod, he will not die. With the rod you yourself should beat him, that you may deliver his very soul from Sheol itself.” At times, then, a parent will need to speak to the child by the administration of pain. This pain, God’s Word assures us, is not going to kill the child; but it will have beneficial effects, protective benefits for the child, protecting “his very soul from Sheol.”

Lovely environment for children, eh?

Norm

This reminds me how my parents would constantly remind me that in old time Isreal I would have been stoned to death for <insert bad behaviour here>. No doubt made them feel better when whipping a young child. How loving that now god doesn't require parents to participate in casting a horrible death upon their children! Someone forgot to tell this freak of a father about that "new Light" though ...

I used to get a good spanking from my Dad when I was a kid. If I was really naughty, he would use one of his belts on me. Thankfully he was kind enough not to use the buckle end.

At the KH, my Dad was an elder and was used extensively in the small congregation we were in. If I was misbehaving during the meeting, and he was involved in a meeting part, he assigned another brother to take me outside for a spanking. I was only 4 or 5 at the time, but I still remember the hate I felt towards this brother for doing something that was supposed to be done by my parents.

Thinking back now, I can see what a warped world the WTS is.

P.S. One of the first things that the school official I showed the article to noted was that the children were being "home schooled", so that teachers, and others would not have been able to pick up on the abuse. I told him a high number of witnesses "home school" their children and that abuse is a common theme in children who've grown up as witnesses is abuse.
They love to keep their kids soooo isolated for a reason. Jeez, the next thing you know, they will be "encouraged" not to seek medical treatment so that healthcare workers can't pick up on the abuse. They already get by with sacrificing their children on the blood issue (although, the state canlegally do pretty much as it sees fit to save a child's life)

Farkel,

Thanks for posting those articles. I was so bothered about ‘spanking’ in the K.H that it was def. one of the thing’s that made me leave. I felt physically sick each time a child was taken out for a smack (English term for Spanking) I did my own research on the subject and was horrified at the ‘old’ stuff which they printed…truly gross.

I have come to the conclusion that the org. is def. stuck in the idea that smacking is the way. Just as they are stuck with the idea that anyone who isn’t an active JW is an ENEMY. (those that have left) Yes, they are stuck in the past.

I have also concluded that the writers of these articles have probably never had children of their own. So, who are they to offer one word of advice on the important issue of disciplining someone else’s child??????????

The new ones that come along do observe the ‘take out for a smack’ routine, and often carry on this cycle. I have seen it myself…..sad.

Latte

Andee,

Your dad sounds like my mom. She was a single parent with six kids to raise and didn't have time to play games when her rules were disobeyed. Going outside and picking your own switch has GOT to be one of the most horrible tortures ever devised by Southern parents. (That's so cruel it ain't funny.) And you can easily be sentenced five-to-ten for some of the stunts my mamma pulled.

It's funny, but I don't believe in spanking. One day I may come to regret my current position, but I don't even slap my daughter's hand. I figure if it's illegal to strike hardened criminals in the penitentiary, then it's wrong for grownups to hit little kids with anything, including their hands.

How a father could beat his child like that man did, even including other children in the proceedings...

tj

Teejay, I agree! I was told so often to go get "my own switch"...and if I picked one too small or thin, I'd get it even worse! I remember so well the feelings of total despair and helplessness.

I read something in a magazine once by someone who was against physical punishment. It stuck in my mind and I always quote it to anyone I see whipping or beating their children...

"If you assaulted, hit, or punched your neighbor, or someone you met on the street, you'd go to jail for battery. Why can you do this to a child and think it's okay?"

I saw so much child abuse at our KH, it was ridiculous. My mother often used that saying too. That if my sister and I had lived in Israel, we'd have been stoned to death for disobedience. I always got the feeling she was disappointed we all didn't live back then! But she tried to come as close to it as possible! Once she hit me so hard I saw stars! I thought that only happened in cartoons. Not true!

But, it's just like the society to deny and distance themselves from the real "truth", when it slaps them in the face!(pun intended!!)

April

"Love never dies." Voivodul Vlad Draculea (from Bram Stoker's Dracula-1992)

Yikes Dana,

Thanks for reminding me of that little bit of trivia from our childhood. As I recall, Mom mostly used that switch thing as a scare tactic. I think she might have swatted at our legs with it once or twice, but yes, luckily...we were never beaten with the switch or belt. I cannot even imagine.

Do you remember when we had all four been bad, and Mom would say "Wait til your Dad gets home?" and then he'd line us up for the spankings? If you'll recall, I always got in line first cuz I wanted to get mine over with, and you and John were always fighting over who got last in line. It didn't matter where he got in the line, he always got whupped the hardest. But what the hell, he deserved it, right?

I too spanked my kids when they were younger, I'm talking about a few swats...not an over the knee with a paddle kind of thing. But still, I now wish I hadn't done that. I don't think it's absolutely necessary.

think41self

Holy Flying Screaming Buddha, Batman!