Exactly one year ago three other families joined us at our vacation home for a week of relaxation and stimulating conversation. Of the four men, three were Elders and the other a Ministerial Servant. Together these four had 116 years as “appointed servants”. In another post I may talk more about families, but for now I would just like to share this experience with these men.

I was on my way out at the time and dared to share some thoughts with these old friends. I even took them to a few of the less offensive web sites. The resulting discussions were very stimulating. Having been old friends, 2 of us ex-Bethelites, and perceiving a true camaraderie from common experience. we l
owered our defenses and spoke form our hearts.

We laughed at the preposterous reasoning of the Daniel book we were expected to present as legitimate. We cringed at the reality of conducting the Congregation Watchtower Study when the lesson was total BS. But at that time, last year, we were all loyally supporting the “Faithful and Discreet Slave” waiting for them to wake up and turn things around.

WE ARE NOT WAITING ANYLONGER. By April of this year, less than 6 months after our week together, all 3 elders had resigned. The MS, who had already resigned as an elder over problems within, so far is hanging on. These four men had been pillars in their witness community, some with years in the fulltime work.

We are still attending meetings for the sake of family and friends but we are mentally and spiritually free. We are all still Christian, looking at the Bible now with freedom to think and reason without the burden or concern for what the Watchtower says about a scripture.

After 36 years of devoting myself to helping people, the last six months I have wondered what I can do now. But it now occurs to me, I’m still helping people. I’m going to continue helping people find freedom (Gal 5:1) until I’m caught and DF’d. And then I’ll find other ways to help.

If you are still attending meetings how do you feel about staying on the inside, for now, and exploring ways of reaching others in the borg? I’m working on about 4 others in this congregation, including two elders. If you are doing the same, would you like to share ideas and methods?

Jst2laws

Sounds pretty nice. But think about this: Your work "inside" will never have the impact of 4 ex-elders, still well thought of, DA'ing at one time. As a group, you could no doubt communicate your reasons to literally hundreds, if you planned and orchestrated correctly.

Also, something to think about, would be to not DA as group, but rather quiting, all at the same time, being slightly more open with others about the problems in the org. Do the fade away, but with 4 people fading instead of just one. A powerful messege there.

And whatever you guys do as a group, don't any of you join a church! That is, if you want to help your current cause.

Any way you do it though, is fine. I always cheer for the methods that I think will rock the WT the most. Each individual has to deal with the consequences of their action.

I'm sure you will. My hope for any religious person who realizes it's time to actually make a difference is; more humanity, less speaking for God. There is no want for things to do to help with humanity. Heck, even just shutting the hell up about God is a powerful tonic for the earth. **nudge, nudge**

SixofNine,

You said:
“Sounds pretty nice. But think about this: Your work "inside" will never have the impact of 4 ex-elders, still well thought of, DA'ing at one time. As a group, you could no doubt communicate your reasons to literally hundreds, if you planned and orchestrated correctly.”

Perhaps this could be true. I could only dream of having the impact on the JW community that J. Penton did when he left, even as he left. That could never happen with my exit. The other men who resigned, one under pressure when his wife reported him, each live in a different part of the country. So no one would see the impact of 3 or 4 elders in one congregation stepping out.

From my experience there are two common reactions to a prominent elder DA’ing himself of getting DF’d for apostacy.

1 Many people grief as one does the loss of a loved one to death.
2 Most angrily dismiss that one as unworthy, a fraud. They remind themselves of the WT defense, “if they were of our sort they would not have gone out from us”.

Under the right circumstances the public withdrawal you suggest can bring many out. I do not believe I could have such an impact.

Another factor I doubt will set too well with you, is I do not want to jerk people out of the WT without first giving them a spiritual foundation to stand on. A kind old man for whom many of us have a very high regard just had one of his books published in Japanese. The first month resulted in over 900 orders. I told him this could be not just 900 books but 900 Japanese friends liberated from the organization. His response was, “But it depends on what they do afterward. Some will go right back to the churches of Christendom.” That may be better than staying in the borg, but I’m still a Christian and do not see trading one corrupt form of Christianity for another as an accomplishment.

Thanks for your comments, SixofNine. And I agree with you: “more humanity, less speaking for God”.

Jst2laws

Waiting
My wife and I enjoy you and your sisters posts as well.

I hope I did not convey the thought that we should keep going to the meetings. Especially once they label us and start mistreating.

If one wants to disappear so as to not get DF'd then that is the right way for them. If we are already being mistreated there is probably an attitude among the folks that would prevent one from having much influence on them anyway.

I had too many ugly confrontations with the CO, and disappointing response from the Society. But the folks at the KH so far think well of me, I think. So I do not feel uncomfortable so far. If I can keep it that way I will work on hearts and consciences as I have using the wonderful information I get from this site.

As for your name "Waiting", or you suggesting the choice was a critical reference to the Service department's delayed response to your letter? If so, perhaps you should change to "NOT WAITING ANY LONGER"! Hard to type though! Take care.

Jst2laws

Who is J. Penton and why did he have such a big impact when he left?

It becomes increasingly harder to listen to all the 'crap' coming from the platform the longer you stay in. Then you begin to question if you're wasting your time at all them meetings.

But, if you feel you can help others by staying in, by all means do so. But usually it's less than you expected. If you're looking at it as 'stand up comics' you might enjoy staying also.

There is no 'rush' however to do anything. Afterall, 1975 is a long ways off yet!

Outaservice (Who got out in the 'nick of time')

Hi nowfree,
How is your baby? Sorry to hear about your marriage (maybe not, though!) How nice it is to hear of others treating the sheep without a shepard kindly. I still feel there are some "good" ones who will respond. j2bf

Hey Jst2laws,

Tell your wife I said "howdy" - and perhaps she'll join us sometime? The other day, there were about eight women in chat, s-l-o-w-l-y a couple of men came in. Well, Mustang came galloping in!

It's a good place for jw women, we can converse as equals, either to learn, chat, hold our own, or backdown if wrong. But we can discuss freely - and that is a freedom.

Pass on our "welcome"?

As for my name, at first I was waiting, but after a week on the Internet - my husband & I knew it was too late to go back. Like others, I just wished I had clicked years earlier. Btw, when elders try to talk - or try to get us to da ourselves - we just continue to tell them "We're waiting on the Society to respond to us. They told us they would."

waiting

I think if you have your family with you and even some friends that is good and you have already realized what many here hope for. Perhaps think about counting your blessings and begin fading away.

Staying active to help others increases your chances of being disfellowshipped, which makes it extremely difficult to help anyone.

One you realize the scam, eventually pretending by attending meetings drives you crazy. Field service becomes next to impossible. Hopefully you realize the importance of striking a balance between moving on and helping others.

There are no glorious ways of exiting this cult. Any hopes of 'beating the system' will be dashed to pieces if you play the game long enough. As long as you understand that.

Path

Jst2laws: I could have used a brother like you last year, but how
would I have known you? There may have been those in my own
congregation feeling as you do, but we would never have felt free
enough to talk. The few who called me after I stopped going to
meetings (10/17/00) were wts through and through. I tested the
water a bit with them then backed away when they spouted the org
line.

I disassociated last February (announced in March); my reasoning
may have been faulty but I wanted to set the example for my
daughters and show them life outside the wts. My younger daughter
has researched cults on the internet all on her own and told me
the other day the wts is a cult, it fits the profile of one. My
older daughter has decided to stop pioneering for a while and go
to college. I see these as positive steps toward thinking for
themselves.

All I ever told them was what I told the PO in my DA letter..I no
longer agree with everything the wts teaches. It doesn't matter
what it is that I disagree with because there isn't anything one
can disagree with and still remain a member. The latest on
disagreement came out in an article this past summer...you are not
to even harbor thoughts that are in disagreement with the fds.

The scriptural foundation that I want for my daughters is faith
in Christ Jesus and I taught them that long before we were sucked
into the wts cult.

I pray you have success in your endeavors.

Libby