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Seeker4Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.

OK, I had initially intended on commenting on two things in Barbara's commentary in another thread, that combined, make for an interesting scenario for JW pedophiles - then I was distracted by a question from Purps, and decided I'd use this comment to start a new thread. That is a hell of an avatar pic, by the way, Purp. If you're half as cute as that smile you're wearing, you must be quiet a heartbreaker! And what kind of a name is Purplesofa?? Why not Browncouch? Or Stainedsettee?? Lavenderloveseat???

Anyway - there is this interesting situation of the "three year rule," the "evidence" of Jehovah's forgiveness, and JW pedophiles that Barbara mentions on the CD.

A brother can have committed a serious sin, and if it's been a few years, and the brother's life gives evidence that he's been forgiven by Jehovah, the elders don't necessarily have to be told about the sin, and if they are, they don't necessarily have to deal with it. Barbara discusses this "three year rule" in her commentary, and I remember well when it first came out in WTS literature.

So, we have this kind of scenario: A beloved elder is accused of sexually touching a child. It is years later, when they have the maturity and the courage, that the now adult victim tells the elders. The pedophile elder then admits that, in a moment of weakness, he was inappropriate with the child, but he was deeply troubled and it never happened again. He's asked Jehovah for forgiveness. The body looks at his record of years of faithful service, assembly parts, auxiliary pioneering, etc., and all they see is evidence of the Holy Spirit in his life. Obviously, in their eyes, Jehovah has forgiven him. Considering it has been years since the abuse, and he's produced such good fruits, the elders can just let sleeping dogs lie. (Pun intended!)

What's wrong with this scenario? The elders assume that the good conduct and seeming blessings the pedophile elder has in his life are evidence of Jehovah's forgiveness and blessing - when the reality is that anyone can behave in such a way as to seem to be blessed by god. He's got some social skills, so he gives good talks. He's smart so he can give what sounds like righteous counsel to those in need. He puts down 15 to 20 hours a month on his time report no matter what, so he seems to be doing better that way than most of the rest of the elders. He kisses ass and has some ability, so he gets privileges. He's a model elder in so many ways.

In other words, anyone can create the circumstances in their life that makes it look like they are god's special little darling in the eyes of JW elders who think that anyone wicked like a true pedophile would end up being revealed to the congregation by Jehovah. The elders are trusting in the help of someone - Jehovah - and something - the Holy Spirit - which aren't really there!

So a clever pedophile, especially one who could move from congregation to congregation every few years (which in itself could be looked at as an example of his spirituality - "see, he's always moving to help out a new congregation!!"), could in fact have abused dozens or hundreds of children over the years. If here and there some child or former victim comes forward, he can use the three year rule, his contriteness and evidence of forgiveness, and what body of elders wouldn't fooled by the "evidence" that this elder has holy spirit in his life.

The sad thing is that this is not just a hypothetical - these sort of situations actually happened.

These are some of my thoughts about the evidence that Barbara discovered in the court documents.

S4

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ex-nj-jwRe: Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.

If these elders were spirit guided - they would be out of the JW cult a long time ago!

I'm still working on the CD - I have to take small bites, it's amazing that this stuff really happend.  Not that I ever doubted it.  Seeing and reading is just soooo overwhelming!!!!!

nj

Have I said thank you to Barbara Anderson and all her who helped her???  If not, THANK YOU!

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stillajwexelderRe: Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.

What's wrong with this scenario? - --- assume good conduct - --- seeming blessings the pedophile elder has in his life are evidence of Jehovah's forgiveness and blessing - when the reality is that anyone can behave in such a way as to seem to be blessed by god. - -- He's a model elder in so many ways. In other words, anyone can create the circumstances in their life that makes it look like they are god's special little darling in the eyes of JW elders who think that anyone wicked like a true pedophile would end up being revealed by HS

So a clever pedophile, especially one who could move from congregation to congregation

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY THE CRUX and an excellent point - PEDOPHILES are known to be very devious and patient in getting to their victim - so that is exactly what a pedophile elder could do - be very devious and be a "model" elder

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hillary_stepRe: Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.

Seeker,

So, we have this kind of scenario: A beloved elder is accused of sexually touching a child. It is years later, when they have the maturity and the courage, that the now adult victim tells the elders. The pedophile elder then admits that, in a moment of weakness, he was inappropriate with the child, but he was deeply troubled and it never happened again. He's asked Jehovah for forgiveness. The body looks at his record of years of faithful service, assembly parts, auxiliary pioneering, etc., and all they see is evidence of the Holy Spirit in his life. Obviously, in their eyes, Jehovah has forgiven him. Considering it has been years since the abuse, and he's produced such good fruits, the elders can just let sleeping dogs lie.

This no longer happens. In recent years the way the WTS handles elders and in fact any publisher who has been accused and had proved against them a case of abuse is put on a list and their names sent to Headquarters. A file with these names is kept by the Secretary in each congregation as well.

They can never be used in a position of authority at any level any longer, amd if they are serving elders they are removed as such. This of of course not as a reaction by the WTS in repulsion at this dreadful outrage, but to protect the corporation against future legal issues. If we all remember that the interests of the Organization come before justice, truth, honor and humanity we will understand their thinking quite clearly.

All to little too late, but it is the closest that any survivors will get to "justice", apart of course from nailing the WTS in the courts, as has happened recently.

Cheers - HS

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minimusRe: Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.
There's no evidence of pedos just stopping their molesting. Ask the Catholic Church. So this scenario of the elder is far fetched.
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Seeker4Re: Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.

HS: Yeah, I was still in when that change took place. Do you know if it has been somewhat distilled? I started a thread on here a week or so ago about the elders calling me maybe 10 years ago asking if I would be upset if my son's abuser were appointed as a servant. You can probably find the thread easily.

The scenario I wrote about, though, was in place for many years, perhaps close to 20, and I think it led to some serious problems, as Barbara mentions.

stilla: (Lovely avatar, by the way. You know how to pick them!) Yes. We tend to think of child abusers as these lechers hanging around playgrounds with trenchcoats and three day stubble. Far from it. They are often shy and kind, likeable, vulnerable, avuncular - quite the opposite of what one would assume. One of the most likeable, spiritual brothers I knew, he was an elder and the assembly overseer from one of my earliest circuits, turned out to have been screwing LOTS of little girls in his congregation in the Ballston Spa, NY area in the 1970s. It was a scandalous case and made the headlines, for sure. I'll post his name if I can remember it. This was a brother everyone thought was an angel on earth.

S4

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restrangledRe: Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.

So the society bases judgment on a three year rule (give or take), and the perpetrator's contributions to the congregation in general, his wonderful reputation and including moves to other areas, ...and possible connections to big shots.

What does the law consider in the state the scum committed an act as forgivable and free from prosecution?

Again it goes back to many of the objections to disclosure of documents in Texas and that States response:

To Paraphrase from the document.  Any religion is allowed to believe and worship as they please, but they still have to obey secular law.....bottom line!  Religious freedom does not over rule law.

r.

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golf2Re: Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.



The recovery rate for peds is next to nil !!!!!!

Golf
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restrangledRe: Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.

btt.

r.

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VRe: Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.
Seeker4: chatting up avatars on a paedophilia topic is a bit creepy, eh? 
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flipperRe: Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.

      Seeker-  If the elders were "spirit" guided then they would open their minds to real experts in the field of psychology dealing with child molestion issues and pedophiles, and realize and learn that these perverts never get healed as Minimus says, they just keep repeating the same scenario as they move around in their travels. It never ceases to amaze me just how idiotic the Jehovah's Witnesses organization is in regards to feeling they are armchair quarterbacks or experts in fields that they don't have a snowballs chance in hell of knowing what they are talking about or facing!!                     

      As I've told elders face to face, the danger in that is then they make decisions that either affect or infect somebodies life that can have lifetime ramifications of devastation. All the more reason I hope this crazy cult goes down , the sooner the better, so we can perhaps save our families from it. Peace out, Mr. Flipper of the (rant with a purpose class) !

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hillary_stepRe: Re: Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.

Seeker,

Yeah, I was still in when that change took place. Do you know if it has been somewhat distilled? I started a thread on here a week or so ago about the elders calling me maybe 10 years ago asking if I would be upset if my son's abuser were appointed as a servant. You can probably find the thread easily.

No, as far as I know it is still WTS policy, in fact I would think even more so given the publicity that has engulfed them reagrding this issue the past few years.

The policy was introduced in in 1997 as far as I can recall, and has undoubtedly been strengthened. I knew an elder who was very well liked and thought of as a bastion of his congregation at that time who was removed as an elder for interfering with a fourteen year old JW girl twelve years earlier.

He was a very good friend of mine at the time and confided the circumstances to me. The whole scenario was actually rather pathetic and childish. I think that many JW males, especially those raised as such, have a whole dimension missing in the personalities that should have blossomed as adolescents. In some ways these people never quite grow up and feel far too much sympathy with a missed childhood.

This person admitted all to his wife and two children and they stuck by him. He has never re-offended as far as I know. This was no hardened pedophile, just a pathetic middle aged man who was flattered by the attentions of a child. How ridiculous is that. He was told by Bethel that he would never serve as an elder again despite the protestations of his local elder body and as of today I understand is still no longer serving.

Many Jehovah's Witnesses and it has to be said XJW's, are seriously messed up people.

HS

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BizzyBeeRe: Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.
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Seeker4Re: Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.

V: "Seeker4: chatting up avatars on a paedophilia topic is a bit creepy, eh?"

Oh, me bad....

Tried to come up with one, (an excuse) but you're right.

S4

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looking_glassRe: Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.

Ok, so I have a question.  I am a little dazed and confused (really I am more like a spun top).  If the JWs hold to the 2 witness principle when dealing with alleged molestation charges and supposedly they do this based on the bible, where does the 3 year rule come from?  Even if it is not in existence anymore, where did it come from to begin with?  What bible principle? 

From what I remember of my bible studies if someone killed another person, that dead person's family member could take the killer's life unless they went to the land of refuge (right?).  The killer was safe until the high priest died (right?)  That I remember, when a woman was raped often times her brothers would go and kill the person or the family members of the person who raped her.  Granted based on the bible stories the people who went and killed the rapist was not blessed by god, but it was almost justified because of the circumstances (right?) 

So, if we go based on the bible, cause that is what JWs do, could a person whose son or daughter was molested by an elder or a position in authority, go and kill the molester and then hide in Bethel until the president of the WTBTS died and then their sins according to the JWs would be done away with. 

See, the problem is that we live by the laws in the lands we live in.  But the JWs commingled their rules.  The cherry picking of biblical laws and application of same is what kills me.  It is the speech of the forked tongued one!  So that brings me back to where did the 3 years come from? 

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Seeker4Re: Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.
The three year rule came out of comments in the Organization book or it's predecessor. Essentially it asked if a brother should report a serious sin he'd committed years before, and answered it by saying if some time had passed and the brother saw evidence of Jehovah's blessing in his life, he wouldn't need to.

Later, a KM answered a question about what sort of time frame was meant, and they stated the 2-3 year period.

Even though it's a policy that has been modified, it is still having repercussions

And I also think that a lot of brothers in situations similar to what H_S mentioned were let slide in past years. I know a brother who slept with his teenaged stepdaughter, and later served as an elder. Many years later under the new policy he was removed and he eventually left the JWs.

S4
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minimusRe: Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.
Hillary, do you know of other "pedophiles" that really weren't pedophiles but just acted like one just once???
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Seeker4Re: Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.
Min,

The point I'm trying to make in that scenario is not that this person/elder did this just once. Exactly the opposite - that if accused of an incident, the pedophile, in the past, could say it was years ago, just the once, and his life gives evidence that Jehovah has forgiven him.

He would of course be lying - I was just pointing out that WTS policy at the time would make it easy for a pedophile elder to continue his abuse, at least in some circumstances.

I also think that there will be elders viewed as pedophiles and removed as in H_S 's experience, who were "just" inappropriate with an older teenager. I'm sure no other men on here have ever had less than pure thoughts about an underage teenager!

S4
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minimusRe: Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.
Seeker, I understand and agree.
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golf2Re: Barbara's CD, the Three Year Rule & Pedophile Brothers. My comments.
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