Here are just a few thoughts to discuss and to keep myself distracted for now.

There are only two organizations that routinely reward and bless major screw-ups:

1) Government Agencies
2) The Watchtower Society

Case in point: the WTS royally screwed up by wrongly identifying the Great Crowd Class(tm) in AT LEAST the FIFTY years before 1935. They wrote and distributed millions upon millions of articles, books, pamphletts, tracts and gave countless talks that were ALL "wrong" on who comprised the Great Crowd. Then in 1935 when it became obvious that the magic 144,000 number of "Heavenly King-Princes" was about to be exceeded, they announced that the Great Crowd Class(tm) were to not have any sort of heavenly reward.

When this monumental blunder was revealed without being humbly acknowledged as such, the blunderers REWARDED themselves for this blunder. These same BLUNDERERS and false prophets were henceforth to be those who MUST be ministered to, fed, clothed and supplicated per Matthew 25 and those who did not do this would face eternal oblivion.

In a nutshell, they screwed-up royally and then elevated and blessed THEMSELVES, further demanding reverance and charity from those they had deceived.

All blame simply has to rest upon Jehovah, because in the twisted world of dubland, when dub leaders screw up (no matter how many people are adversely affected) it is because Jehovah "allows" them to screw up in order to test the "loyalty" of the screwees. When they get something right, or at least state something that cannot be disproved, i.e. "Christ arrived in Kingdom power and began ruling invisibly in 1914. PROVE ME WRONG!", then it is also Jehovah who "directed" them to this "truth."

False prophecies, insane doctrine, absurd policies = Jehovah allows this to happen for a good reason

Doctrine that cannot be disproven - Jehovah has a personal hand in making sure they understand it

Don't you folks see the BEAUTY in all of this? It is fool-proof! When they get stuff right, Jehovah is blessing them, and when they don't Jehovah is "allowing" them to get stuff wrong. Who determines what is "directed" and what is "allowed?" Why, THEY do, of course!

Another case in point: a number of dubs have told me that Jehovah "allowed" the WTS to print lies and false doctrine like their sanctions on vaccinations, organ transplants, alternative military service and Talmudic rules on sex practices among consenting spouses to "test" the "loyal" of dubs. Simply put, these people are saying that Jehovah specifically did not interfere with His True Organization when they printed crap that killed people, ruined marriages and destroyed families to "test" those people whose lives were thus ruined.

Like it or not, if the WTS has a shred of honesty, they would have to admit they are accusing God of being directly or indirectly responsible for their own massive blunders, idiotic rules and destruction of lives, marriages and families.

If there is ever a heaven-on-earth for lying, manipulating corrupt criminals like the GB, it must be the Watchtower religion. They win no-matter-what they do.

Here's another case in point that Gedanken told me yesterday over coffee: the society has published a number of experiences where people were being bothered with "demons" until they started studying and became dubs. HOW STUPID ARE THESE DEMONS, ANYWAY? Why did these idiotic demons do stuff to drive people INTO the Watchtower religion? I've never heard any examples of anyone being driven OUT of the Watchtower religion because of demons, and then have the demon attacks go away right after they left? One would think that if demons were so interested in the dub religion that there would be countless examples told of suchs experiences. After all, demons want to get dubs OUT of "Jehovah's Organization," don't they? Then, why are they working so hard to get people INTO that organization based upon the experiences I've seen?

It's stuff to think about, eh?

Farkel

Farkel,

You are a "screw up" person.

JW's are very strange when it comes to this demon stuff. It seems like every hall I have ever been in that several have had demon experiences. One sister was having a hard time making it to a convention (she had a flat tire) and she blamed it on demons. This same sister was incredibly paranoid about objects bringing demons into her home ex. Goosebump books. So not only do these Demons drive them into the hall they also are the culprits behind everyday problems that everyone seems to have.
Also enjoyed the points about how no matter what they win !! How true...
jurs

Hey Farkel, absolutely right!

It's the same with elder appointments.

If a brother gets made elder and seems to be all spiritual for years but then later it is found that he was having an adulterous affair with a poineer for years, then it was Jehovah who "allowed" this to happen because it was "necassary" to have this individual removed from the org., or at least have him humbled.

But if he were to work out just fine and be an example to everyone, then it was jehovah who blessed the congo. with the much needed help!

And that kind of reasoning is what keeps the org. in power. They can get pretty silly and stupid about it also, like I remember
an elder who once told me when I was able to find parking right away(we did not have a lot) that that was Jehovahs angel who saved that spot for me! He was completly serious.

Then on another occasion, this same elder told me, when I arrived late to the meeting because I could not find parking, that, that was Satan trying to get me to miss the meeting!!!

How completely stupid!

Mav-

Farkel and all, I have never thought of that particular argument before. When you think about it, it is really stupid to visualize an army of evil spirits focusing on unbelievers instead of Jehovah's servants. To listen to the teachings of The Empire about Satan and The Demons one would logically envision faithful witness homes constantly bombarded with all manner of terrifying attacks in an effort to shake their faith and drive them away from Jehovah's Organization. After all, that would be "persecution" wouldn't it? Instead, only isolated tales reach us second hand from the fringe of The Empire and usually they are only urban legends.
The "demonic attacks" become reduced to unseen culprits of everyday inconveniences such as flat tires or the flu.
If you follow through with their perceptions of where demons "hang out", then our homes must be infested with them. Why I probably have at least twenty demons in my living room right now. And so do you. Some of you blatant apostates must have entire legions of demons clawing for breathing room in your dens of iniquity.
Demons must be the best houseguests you could have. The don't raid the fridge, don't bother the kids or pets, no phone bills, you can watch what you want on tv, and I've never had one drink my last beer. They seem to be pretty quiet and I've never noticed them using the lights or the water or heard a complaint about it being too hot or too cold. Never had 'em leave the door unlocked or a window open and none have ever bothered my stash of pharmaceuticals. Come to think of it, I really do think I live here alone.
never mind.
mike.

"Sit in the chair next to him and channel surf!" lol

Good to have your sense of humor back on board.

The way Jw's paint demons, you would think they are more ignorant than the 'lower' human creatures, they are supposed to be controling.

Danny

>Here's another case in point that Gedanken told me yesterday over coffee: the society has published a number of experiences where people were being bothered with "demons" until they started studying and became dubs. HOW STUPID ARE THESE DEMONS, ANYWAY? Why did these idiotic demons do stuff to drive people INTO the Watchtower religion? I've never heard any examples of anyone being driven OUT of the Watchtower religion because of demons, and then have the demon attacks go away right after they left? One would think that if demons were so interested in the dub religion that there would be countless examples told of suchs experiences. After all, demons want to get dubs OUT of "Jehovah's Organization," don't they? Then, why are they working so hard to get people INTO that organization based upon the experiences I've seen?

It's stuff to think about, eh?

Farkel

After seeing the effects that "jehoober's organisation" has on people, isn't it obvious that the demons want this very thing? ;-)
Rex

Farkel,
They are on the public record as putting the blame on Jehovah. Notice this:

"They (self-willed ones) do not recognize that the Lord is directing his work, that the Lord Jesus at the temple has his own good way of doing things, and that he transmits to his anointed ones the necessary information, and if the instructions sent out are wrong, then the responsibility is to the Lord and not to the local service committee". (The Watchtower, May 15, 1937, page 153, paragraph 31)

Lurking ones here need especially to be aware that this blasphemy HAS NEVER BEEN RESCINDED, nor has an apology been made.

Cheers,
Ozzie

"It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Anonymous

larc,

: I think I am going over to Witness On Line and explain this to them. I know it would make them happy.

Be sure to donate your brain to science first, larc. You won't have any need for it over there!

Farkel

Here's another case in point that Gedanken told me yesterday over coffee

Gedanken is still around then?

Englishman

..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.