Since there is a lot of emotion expressed on this discussion forum, I wanted to present a conceptual framework that might be useful. Elizabeth Kiebler-Ross studied the emotional state of those facing a terminal illness. She concluded that those suffering this fate went through five stages: 1. Denial (this can't true; I want a second opinion,etc.),
2. Anger (Cursing God, the doctors, etc.) 3. Negotioation (e.g., Promising God to do special work in exchange for a cure.) 4. Depression, and finally 5. Acceptance.

It might be that people going through other tramatic situations go through these stages as well. It seems to me that JWs and xJWs may go through this. I think that a lot of JWs are in denial over their doubts. Some here have expressed going through this and how they blamed themselves and their own imperfections at first for these doubts.

Some here have described the Negotiation stage - being in with doubts but with the fear of leaving because of friends and family, so they have reached a compromise that suits them for awhile. The third stage, Anger, has been expressed my many and often by certain ones in our group here. Also, many have discussed the fourth stage, their depressive episodes. Of course, the goal, I think, should be to reach the fifth stage of Acceptance.

I am curious as to what you think of the validity of this framework. Also, do you think that people go through them in that particular order or in a different order? Do we, sometimes, bounce back and forth between different stages, and finaly, how do we get to acceptance?

I am interested in the thoughts of the experts, that is, those who have gone through the pain of leaving the Society.

Good topic Larc, I gave this some thought and I guess one of the most obvious things might be that denial is the opposite of acceptance, and the other 3 steps is essentially the process. I suppose this doesn't necessarily have to be about death or the prospect of death, but in a way we are dying from moment to moment, not to mention that questioning our former belief system would negate the teaching of everlasting life for many. In any case, I suppose we can say it is a matter of dealing with some kind of loss..

As for the 3 processing steps in the middle - anger, negotiation and depression - I don't believe it is necessarily a sequence. I should note that I am also a person who doesn't keep track of the past in a linear fashion, I remember things but don't remember when it happend, and if you asked me about the order of events regarding my past I would probably only be accurate to 1-2 years. Nevertheless, I still think that for others it may also happen in parallel. For example, one may be experiencing depression throughout the stage of anger or negotiation, or both. I know this is true for myself, because for a long time I was processing this stuff but not on a conscious level, and the depression was always there.

Now as for the question of how to come to acceptance, I think it can in fact be easier than we think. Certainly, there can be no promises as far as time frame is concerned, but perhaps it is a matter of how we understand time.. (I should probably read Stephen's other thread first, but I can always reply to that one too ;) ) I believe the practice of meditation can really help. I recently did a 4 week Vipassana (insight) meditation retreat, and I have to say that I literally feel like a new person. The practice centers around the present moment, your experience right now - the thoughts that are in your mind, the body sensations you feel, etc. I'm no expert, but I think basically when you are not thinking of the past or the future, it allows you to concentrate on the matter at hand, and that does not necessarily have to be some external task to be performed. We live in the present moment, the person that experienced the trauma in the past is a different person, even if only to a small degree. The person we want to heal is also in the present, and it seems to me that often when we focus our mind on the present rather than the past, that itself takes a big load off our shoulders.

Of course, there's still the matter of processing all this stuff that we've been taught for so many years. I don't think the details of this process has to happen on a conscious level. There are times in my own life when I'm not even formally meditating, but perhaps just sitting quietly in a contemplative state, and insights just pops up in my head, out of the blue. Of course, everyone is different, and if you have issues on a conscious level you'd likely want to resolve it consciously too. I myself just had that heavy feeling in my heart through the years before I came to accept the fact that I am no longer a JW.

I couldn't comment on how one might consciously process the specific issues associated with leaving the organization as there are many and is no doubt different with everyone. I do have one observation that I think may be helpful though, and that is how we reframe our memories. I recall from my psych classes that memory isn't exactly a reliable thing, that often times it may not be very accurate depending on how we recall things. But I think the important thing is the fact that we CAN reframe it. We can choose to associate other emotions with the same memory. One way that I look at my JW history is seeing it as a learning experience. I find comfort in knowing that I'm wiser now and will not fall into the same trap again. While we may miss our friends and family who are still in the organization, I think another way to look at that is to recognize the value of those ties, but on an individual level we must realize how confused they are, too. Perhaps the lesson there is to appreciate the social and familial relationships we do have, but accept them for who they are and what they stand for.

It seems to me acceptance is really important in everyday life. We may live with someone who is absent minded, perhaps they leave their belongings around the house. Instead of just asking or expecting them to change, it would probably be wise to recognize that atleast for right now, that is just the way they are. Now that's a small thing that a lot people would no doubt put up with. But other things like the teachings and practices of the WTS are much bigger, and it is certainly unreasonable to think that they will change just because you ask them to, when you can't even get your kid to pick up their clothes. We must accept things as they are, because that is the truth of the matter. The other side of it is to recognize the truth about ourselves. If we're honest in both regards our course of action should be perfectly clear.

For me, an ideal method of separation from the WT would be to hook Brooklyn Bethel up to a gigantic particle accelerator and fire the place into the vicinity of the Pleiades.

Expatbrit (guess which stage I'm at)

.. in fact, it's been read 88 times so far, just not too many posts..

Hello,

What I wrote is a lot to chew on. I do believe it is useful to contemplate these ideas and try to figure out how we can get to acceptance, and in so doing reach a state of peace instead of turmoil. I want to thank Stehpen and Introspection for their lengthy and thoughtful comments. I think that each of you highlighted some important ideas that help up us reach acceptance. Stephen emphasized our own internal resources. He said that "when you decide you are more important than what you are taught" you will begin your healing. Later, he wrote, "and your search for truth is inside yourself." This drawing on our internal resources as contrasted with our desire to be part of "the tribe" is an important idea, in my opinion.

Introspection talked about "living in the present moment can help." I think this is a useful idea. I can get over wrought by thinking of the past or worrying about the future, but if I can stop that thinking and live this precious moment, I feel much better. Sometimes, the present moment is as simple as looking at a blue sky or listening to fine music. I am in the moment and I am happy.

I think his idea about reframing our memories is a good approach. He said that being a JW was a "learning experience" and he is "wiser now". I think that is a good way to think. I can be depressed over wasted years, or I can be happy because I have the unique background that allows me to help others. I really do believe that how we interprete our past and what we do with it has a powerful influence on our emotions.

Thank you Seven and Prisca for appreciating what has been written here. Thank you, again, Stephen and Introspection for you thoughtful analysis.

I do think this framework is valid. I think many people bounce back and forth between stages. I'm not sure how to achieve acceptance. I try to reach that stage by trying to be the best person that I can be. When I die, if I die, I hope that I am remembered by someone who had a positive effect on other people's lives.
Bonnie

Hi larc:

Just noticed your post today. I haven't come to this part before but noticed your refence to this thread in your comments to emyrose about depression.

This post couldn't come at a better time for me. I'm no expert on this subject...just out here floundering around trying to get the right perspective on my feelings.

I went through the different stages of disbelief or denial once I started finding out more real truths about the WTS. It all seemed to fit though when I gave it lots of thought and was able to put my own experiences as pieces to the big jigsaw puzzle picture of the WTS. Coming here, I was able to read of so many more experiences like mine that I was at least be happy to know that my experiences weren't just something wrong with me, my lack of faith or love or some other label that I put on myself (along with others who labelled me too).

I definetly do bounce back and forth right now between depression and anger, but mostly get stuck in depression mode basically because of my family situation. I think I could get out of the depression mode and go to acceptance, if my family situation would get fixed.

I've stopped going to the meetings for about 2 years. My son was da'd a few years before that. My daughter is still very active and they both are married and away from home in other cities.

The problem: My daughter upholds the WTS policy on shunning my son but they both are in regular contact with me. She constantly asks me about him and what his feelings are about coming back and suggests what I could say or do to encourage him back. I can't stand to see her pain even though I know she is responsible for her own actions. She is convinced if she abides by the WTS, he will come around, just like all the experiences from the WTS prove.

She suggests that if I went to the meetings that would encourage him to. I can't open up to her about my new beliefs because I fear she would get upset at thinking I'm turning apostate. I truthfully don't know if she would feel obligated to "get help from the elders" for me, and if she did, we all know where that would probably lead. I also have to think of the ripple effect that df'ing me or whatever would have on my aging mother that I need to help my sibling with.

I know I've received some fine encouragement from here to just fade away and probably could do that more easily if my daughter didn't seem to need me to try and influence my son back....which of course leads me around and around in circles because I feel like I should share my new knowledge with him. I know I probably seem like I'm cowardly sitting on the fence with this, but having experienced the consequences before of being df'd, I just don't know how I would cope. I need my association with my family, and I would feel like such a failure as a mother if I did something that caused my daughter any more pain.

I don't know if this is what you wanted from this thread. I just thought my situation might lend some light as to why some feel their depression. Mine is caused by an ongoing situation, not from dwelling on the past. Somedays it just makes me want to lock myself up in the house and not answer the phone or see anyone.

I wish I could find a way out of this. I don't enjoy being so down. I'm usually a fun-loving person, full of kidding and laughter with my friends. It's days that I have confrontations or guilt-trips laid on me, that I can't fight back to because of the threat of shunning, that cause this downward spiral.

Sorry, I didn't mean for this to be so long....I'm looking for some insight on how to get out of this 'going in circles'...I intend to print off your thoughts and those of introspection and stepenw20 to think on. I know you all have gone and/or are going through your own tough, heartbreaking family circumstances. Maybe you can add something to your post on one who is stuck in the middle and being pulled both ways. I can't see my way out, but sometimes "we can't see the forest for the trees" in order to find our own answers.

Had Enough..( and join hands with the multitudes of others like me)

Hi Stephenw20:

Just wanted to quickly acknowledge your answer. I can't stay online and post right now but I'll answer later.

I appreciate reading your posts on many of the other threads too.

Thank you,
Had Enough

Thank you Stephenw20 for your input.

I would like to believe that the statement from the WTS media site about disfellowshipping does not sever family ties, however I fear that that is just another example of JW doublespeak. The expanded explanation I fear would be that that statement only applies to family members living under the same roof, but once that df'd member moves across the street, active family members would no longer associate and would shun.

The W81 Sept. was pointed out to me by me elders as to my required conduct of non-association with my da'd son since he no longer lived with me. So my fear stands that if I speak out about my new beliefs to my daughter or sibling, they might feel obligated to "get the elders to help me". Then if I stood my ground, I would likely be dealt with like so many have..booted out...result...she would feel bound to follow WTS rules of shunning. I don't think either of us could take that.

Hence the root of my depression. My only hope is that I can still just stay a non-active, non-associating member without bearing my soul on my beliefs, and hope that I can somehow get them to find out what I know. Maybe I'll find a way from someone's posting here. The depression usually keeps me from thinking things through clearly, without going in circles.

Then maybe I can move on to the acceptance stage.

Someone I trust asked me if I would ever consider becoming active again. There's absolutely no way I can ever go back to being controlled like that. They still have their hooks in me enough by 'holding my family hostage', I can't submit to their total bondage again.

Had Enough....(but still looking for answers and peace)