MemberPostViewed: times
nicolaouThe Society's more permissive stance on blood fractions could kill my Mum!


We had my Mum and Dad down for a meal at the weekend.  Me and Mum have a kind of  'unspoken truce' going on where neither of us raise an issue in conversation that will lead to a discussion on any JW sensitive topics.  It's not perfect and it doesn't always work but at least we are maintaining a relationship of sorts.

Anyway, knowing that this is the 'blood card' time of year I did take the chance on asking Mum just what her personal stand on blood and fractions would be.  I said I wasn't asking so as to try and change her mind, I just wanted to be aware of the situation in case anything happened.

Mum said that last year she didn't sign the card!  Boy was I surprised, but I kept my mouth shut and let her elaborate.  Turns out that all the recent information on fractions has confused my Mum, she admits to not understanding all the details and arguments so she decided last year to just hold onto her 2005 card while she tried to get her mind around it.

Now she says she has made her decision and will get her 2007 card signed.  And what is that decision?

She is saying 'No' to everything.  All blood, all components, fractions and products.  This is simply because, in the face of so much intimidating and confusing rhetoric she has retreated to a position she can understand - just say no.

I bit my lip and made my Mum a cup of tea but now, two days later, I can feel the anger rising inside of me.  How can I let this rest?  Why should I?

IP: JJi6Syv9k3mythgZ
Junction-GuyRe: The Society's more permissive stance on blood fractions could kill my Mum!
My Grandma, who has been inactive since 1980 with the exception of the occsional convention or memorial, is willing to refuse all blood, even fractions. I tried to explain to her that the Society has started allowing fractions, but she cut me off immediately and went almost berskerk over it. I just ended the conversation. This was about 3 years ago when she was about to have gall bladder surgery. What do you do about someone who is willing to die for a belief that her religion no longer supports?
IP: CW2mRTXIAFYUffY0
ScullyRe: The Society's more permissive stance on blood fractions could kill my Mum!

You see, this is part of the "shock and awe" underlying the WTS's plan.

So many JWs are bewildered by the information (and the sudden need to make their own decision on the matter) that they recoil and say NO to everything.

Now, there can never be a lawsuit against the WTS for forbidding fractions, because the WTS gave JWs the opportunity to make their own personal decision.  That's what they agree to when they sign that form, isn't it... that this is their personal decision.

Freaking clever, if you ask me. Heinous, to be sure, but devillishly clever.

Maybe an informative trip to the doctor to get some teaching on the probability of her needing any of these treatments is in order.

I think it would be an awesome idea to set up a website, with doctors and nurses and lawyers as resources, who can explain these documents for JWs.  I would consider signing up to provide a service like that.

IP: PIaucoih+nuDnNah by Scully: Correct formatting
Junction-GuyRe: The Society's more permissive stance on blood fractions could kill my Mum!
Well Scully that sounds good, if only the JW's would read it and not dismiss it. The JW's already have the no blood site www.noblood.org
IP: lEOTnw7cG9SoiJl+
AK - JeffRe: The Society's more permissive stance on blood fractions could kill my Mum!

Of course I wish no bad to your Mum, Nic.

I do applaude those Jw's who will take a stand one way or the other. You might remind her gently, that 'absolutely no blood' means many vaccinations, and immunizations would fall in that catagory. For her sake - and yours - though I respect that she obviously is holding closer to what she believes the Bible to say [due to swallowing the WTS line of BS] - you may wish to actually help her to work through the list, point on point, and perhaps aid her to make the decisions. In this way, if she would allow it, you may be able to get her 'liberallized' on a few key components that the WTS is allowing now. It could prove valuable in the future.

Good luck.

Jeff  

IP: 29kQ9zxwv1Mr3eAo
MaryRe: The Society's more permissive stance on blood fractions could kill my Mum!
She is saying 'No' to everything.  All blood, all components, fractions and products.  This is simply because, in the face of so much intimidating and confusing rhetoric she has retreated to a position she can understand - just say no.  I bit my lip and made my Mum a cup of tea but now, two days later, I can feel the anger rising inside of me.  How can I let this rest?  Why should I?

Well, it's a tricky situation but what if you offered to look over the new Blood card for her, do some research (Randy Watters has some wonderful information on the whole blood issue), draw diagrams for your mother if necessary and try to explain it to her in as simple as terms as possible.  I would even try and approach the subject of this being "new light" (as insane as that quote is, it's something that Dubs can understand) and that obviously Jehovah would not hold it against her if she accepted "fractions".

I think they're counting on many of the R&F to find the whole thing "too confusing" and, as Scully said, it absolves them of any responsibility if someone dies, because they can say "hey----it was their decision, not ours".  Rotten scumbags.

 

IP: RFNEsie+leOVO+rb
Junction-GuyRe: The Society's more permissive stance on blood fractions could kill my Mum!
Yes use the catchphrase "new light", that just might work. I didnt try that with my grandma back then, but if she ever has to have surgery again I will think of that.
IP: ElSwyZmPkh5ybyee
IP_SECRe: The Society's more permissive stance on blood fractions could kill my Mum!
From my exp most do say NO to everything.  The WTS really wants it this way and they indicate this.  For example after the 1/05 (last one I was there for) blood card talk there was a talk about the conscience.  The thrust of the talk was:  "Just because something is a conscience matter doesnt mean you will bear no responsiblity before Jehovah for the choice you make."  This was translated by most in the hall, myself included, that even though these blood thingies were a conscience matter we might still be considered guilty by Jehovah for accepting them.
IP: xVomz65EXRiUe7SQ
anironRe: The Society's more permissive stance on blood fractions could kill my Mum!

Now, there can never be a lawsuit against the WTS for forbidding fractions, because the WTS gave JWs the opportunity to make their own personal decision.  That's what they agree to when they sign that form, isn't it... that this is their personal decision.

What crossed my mind was that many like those above who are so confused by it all are just saying "NO" to any blood in any form.

If one of these dies and an attempt to sue the WT occurs. The WT will turn round and say "Well he/she could have had this or that blood fraction that would have saved their life. We did not ban them. So the the decision not to take blood was theirs."

IP: AEZt6xtqpIl6lpva
crazyblondebRe: The Society's more permissive stance on blood fractions could kill my Mum!

I think it would be an awesome idea to set up a website, with doctors and nurses and lawyers as resources, who can explain these documents for JWs.  I would consider signing up to provide a service like that.

I
think that is a great idea!! I'd sign up to help others!!
IP: weiJ4+kXMnOKEm7s
Justitia ThemisRe: The Society's more permissive stance on blood fractions could kill my Mum!
Nicolau:
IP: GDxOSxyh3VI7/sbj
Justitia ThemisRe: The Society's more permissive stance on blood fractions could kill my Mum!

Sorry for the double post...

She is saying 'No' to everything.  All blood, all components, fractions and products.  This is simply because, in the face of so much intimidating and confusing rhetoric she has retreated to a position she can understand - just say no.

Nicolau:

I feel your pain.  After the Thursday night meeting, a very dear friend of mine said precisly the same thing.  My friend said that she just can not understand "this stuff" and she is "afraid of sinning."  ...sigh.  I am increasingly suspicious that this might be the WTBTS's goal.  They certainly could have presented  the information in a more easy-to-understand format...perhaps a chart like JW Facts. 

Justitia

IP: GDxOSxyh3VI7/sbj
garybussRe: The Society's more permissive stance on blood fractions could kill my Mum!

I don't blame the Witness people for being skeptical of the Society after what the Society did to the Witness people with the voting article. The Witnesses are really faced with three separate dynamics to every issue now. One, is what the Society puts in print; Two, is what the Society really wants; and Three, is . . . what does Jehovah allow?

Witnesses are taught life is cheap and death is a temporary sleep and loyalty is the real issue. The Witness people have been taught that loyalty to core doctrine is required for salvation and "no blood in any form" is a core doctrine.

The Society has trained the Witnesses for decades to have a martyr complex and a self sacrificing attitude. The other thing the Society is completely missing is the sales axiom. The sales axiom says, the confused mind always says "NO!". The Society is trying to sell the Witness people the blood medical fraction treatment idea with confusion and many Witness people are saying NO.

So, the Society comes back in a few months and presents the same confusing information again and the Witness people still say NO. Many Witness people are thinking that the Society is testing them, like they were taught was done to them with past teachings such as the predictions related to 1975.

The Society hasn't removed the confusion, they've made it worse. They currently teach that taking blood is wrong, and taking blood is okay . . . at the same time. This ain't gonna work! This is an end time group and salvation from death at God's hand is the end goal.

Two things need to be done. The Society needs to remove the current confusion so the Witness people can say "Yes!", and they need to guarantee salvation to people who take blood treatment. 


      
IP: qyhYpnpXEJkdrg2+
garybussRe: The Society's more permissive stance on blood fractions could kill my Mum!

I'll just add to my own thoughts, that the Society needs to take a hard "U" turn on the blood issue and start teaching the Witness people that Jehovah will NOT re-create them in a perfect replica body in paradise if they die from not taking blood medical treatment. They need to teach the Witness people that current "safer" blood medical treatments are a gift sent to them from Jehovah.
 
 The Society needs to teach the Witness parents that they will be blood-guilty if they don't treat their children with modern blood treatment.

This one foot in, one foot out of the blood medical treatment doctrine just isn't gonna work. It's been 6+ years since fractions were allowed and the Society is still fighting the Witness people trying to get them to accept it and the Witness people are not accepting the fraction change as it is.

Is this blood issue a faction battlefield? Is that why the Society is teaching two conflicting and opposite doctrines at the same time? Faction "A" and faction "B" are in a tug of war? Who out there knows?
 
 
       
     
IP: qyhYpnpXEJkdrg2+
5goRe: The Society's more permissive stance on blood fractions could kill my M
I remeber an older sister saying something on the factions. There is no grey area so the factions are suedo banned anyway. It' just no one in the R&F caught on.
IP: jy3/ANj/m5D1rzvF
garybussRe: The Society's more permissive stance on blood fractions could kill my Mum!

 

What's "suedo banned" mean?

 

  

IP: qyhYpnpXEJkdrg2+
SixofNineRe: The Society's more permissive stance on blood fractions could kill my M
martyrdom is easy, especially when it's so passive. Hell, at least a Muslim extremist has to actually take action to complete his or her act of martyrdom. A witness just has to sign a card, and if you get sick, simply lay there while everyone you know and love parades through the room telling you how good you are.
IP: Mz4V6mcE8jmwOz25
5goRe: Re: The Society's more permissive stance on blood fractions could kill
It is banned, but not officialy. It's grey therefore tainted hence the idea is you want to stay as clean as possible. So the R&F were supposed to get it, and stay away from grey issues. But, the R&F doesn't care about grey issues they just care about living or dying. Hence the problem it looks like they have a double standard when in reality in order to get the heat off on the BORG. They the said it is a grey issue Hence a personal choise. Thinking that the R&F would stay away from something sorta bad, and things continue as normal.

To put it simple, They tried tricking the everyone into thinking they OKed but put into word to trigger group think of the R&F into staying away from it anyway. Then it backfired in their face.

IP: jy3/ANj/m5D1rzvF by 5go: Correct formatting
Finally-FreeRe: The Society's more permissive stance on blood fractions could kill my Mum!
She is saying 'No' to everything. All blood, all components, fractions and products. This is simply because, in the face of so much intimidating and confusing rhetoric she has retreated to a position she can understand - just say no.

That's the same position my mother is taking. It's almost as if she prefers to be told what to do rather than have the opportunity to make an informed decision. It makes it awkward for me, as I alone have power of attouney for her personal care - my sisters have been excluded from that.

Edited to add: My mother still believes we shouldn't use fertilizers that contain blood in our gardens. Can't have that blood going into our tomato plants now, can we?

W

IP: zLSL21sqHnkqMmbN by Finally-Free: Correct formatting
nelly136Re: The Society's more permissive stance on blood fractions could kill my Mum!
IP: CYfugTe5VwvmA7cW