Belief - a key to Spiritual experience

Setting aside dogma, taking the comments of Augustine to a deeper level ("Unity in what is essential. Freedom in what is not essential. Charity in everything"), I'd like to share an observation.

I don't know if I can articulate it properly, and I KNOW it'll open me up for some abuse, but so be it. I present to you my thoughts:

(From one traversing a dark night...)

First of all belief:

I'm going to tackle this in reverse. The act of disbelief appears to kill "spiritual experience" stone dead. To be skeptical yet "suspend disbelief" is far more likely to work. The blind belief is likely to have you believing anything and everything, and going off with the faeries.

Finding something as the object of your belief seems far easier for a Western mind to accept than the full-bore path of Zen. Now beliefs can be ideals, but seem best when they arouse the greatest of passions, and hence are more easily vested in a person. It's only in inter-personal relationships that such beliefs seem to have longevity. I believe (there we go again) that is one reason why Christianity has become the force it has. It has little to do with the sword-point, and more to do with the inter-personal identifying with Christ.

The very action of belief, and immersing oneself in it, seems to trigger some wonderful things, but it's very nature insists that one doesn't just put it in a box. It has to be lived and experienced, even if it only starts out life as a mechanism.

Secondly, the focal point of belief:

As I already mentioned, I think that inter-personally is the best way for us (as humans) to go, especially in the Western world.

I recommend an approach that I have to quickly say that I'd feel no offense if folks deign to take, and that being the Jesus road.

I do understand the difficulties that can pose for an exJW mind, and barriers to spiritual experience are exactly what I'd love to help tear down.

I do have to state, first of all, that the Jesus we knew as JW's was not the Jesus of the bible or Christianity.

If "God" or the "Divine" is everywhere, then Jesus is touted as the humanised, personal face of that eternity. I simply recommend reading the Gospel of John, and becoming acquainted with the main character. Whether or not this is initially approached as a novel may not matter, but identifying with that main character, and getting wrapped up in what is said of him, is essential to this process.

I also recommend that it be done with a translation with which you are unfamiliar (for example "The Message" by Eugene Peterson).

Thirdly, the intent of belief:

What is the function of belief, if not to place something above our own ego, be it an ideal or a person whom we believe in?

To that end the "Jesus Road" attempts to place just one person on the "throne of our heart", Jesus. He becomes our Lord, our God, our Daimyo, our Leader.

Since the whole preoccupation of this character is with "love", that comes to us in spades, and overspills to affect our neighbour. It's a spontaneous thing, not something that HAS to be worked at.

But it all starts and ends with an adoration, free from personal ego. From that unencumbered starting point "grace" flows...

...and experience follows.

John - "The Message" (free online).

"The Message" by Eugene Peterson (to buy from Amazon).

I also recommend "The Way to Love" by Anthony de Mello (Amazon).

The meal of my life

I scrabble around in the pit of my stomach

pawing around at the scraps of a meal

wondering now, how I thought it so tasty

looking so rancid, was "it" ever real?

my life takes a turn for the worse or the better

feeding my hopes with old shattered dreams

How could it be that "these" recent fractions

sustained my "soul", my "ego", my "me"?

So as I collect my thoughts from the refuse

sifting away all the dross from my toil

I stumble across a clear cool reflection

bright in the moonlight, crisp in the dawn

The eye that is focussed, the senses so agile

waiting to see what the new day will bring

alert to the meal to soon be presented

sating the hunger of this turning wheel

And when I am fed will I feel "oh so nourished"

will I abandom my fears of the past?

Or will I seek wider and farther and further

piercing illusion, digesting at last.

LT - 31st July 2004

Very interesting, LT.....so....lemme get this straight....you're advocating this belief system in order to eliminate the barriers to spiritual experiences with all their attendant visions, etc., and generate the magic of love among mankind?

Frannie B 

Frannie:

If it achieves that purpose, all the better.

I'm just getting down in print some things that have helped me. Whether or not anyone wants to give them credance is up to them. I'm hardly proposing a full-blown belief systems here, nor directing anyone towards religion...

I'm in the process of distilling "key" truths from a variety of belief systems and frameworks, for personal edification.  I'm just sharing some of the current proceeds of that.

Belief is one, and Love is another.

Do I detect a note of offense, in your post?

Not at all, LT....not at all....I understand what you're doing now.....sometimes getting it down in writing so you can absorb it better helps tremendously....more power to ya, LT!

FB

What exactly is 'spiritual experience'?

Soon as I take my dog for her morning walk......I'm coming back and abusing you and your thread.......ya bastard!

Gumby

Frannie:

Cool. The last thing I wanted to do was cause offense, especially amongst folks hurt by a cult, as was I.

Bridget:

It's simply experiences with things of a spiritual nature, even on a spiritual plane, for some.

Gumby:

Go easy on me, huh?  I'm in a fragile place right now.  This thread represents an out-pouring of the soul.

I'm just heading off for a two day road trip,  I should be back on Monday, which is a Holiday here (for some obscure reason).  Have fun...

 

Have fun ((Ross))..

Like SinkyPantz asked, what do you meam by spiritual experience?  And who is it that would have such an experience?  In other words, who is it that holds any belief?

I would assume when he uses the term 'spiritual experience' when refering to an invisible, yet personally tangible force that appears to be active and guiding either internal realities or external realities.

Either the motivating force eminating from a platform of firm belief (or faith if you like) deep within the soul, or the external realization of a held belief eminating from an invisible realm yet being apparent to physical sight.

Hmmmm..... not sure which though  - hehe.

By the way - if you wrote that wee poem - it is really powerful in my opinion.

I'll be real simple.

For me to put faith in something......that something has to be real as far as a diety goes and belief goes. The idea of  Jesus came from bible writers. For me to read from one of those writers and put faith in his words....'John', .....I would have to believe his words were true. With so much skepticism pointing towards a strong probability Jesus was not the godman he is portayed in the bible to be, including the book of  John,.......how can a person who feels this way put faith in and take....."The Jesus Road"?

Where else would you find information about him?

See.....I didn't abuse you LT.....just asking questions Have a good trip bro.!

And big bastardly hugs 

Gumbiblebahumbugger

I know I have never felt that. Even when I was trying my best to be spiritual and have a connection with something larger than myself...I never felt it. I have felt it at moments in more earthly ways. Feeling connected to living things and the vast networks of life that make up this world, but I have never felt more beyond that. Perhaps I have a limited view and thus it's holding me back, I dunno.

I think that's why I shut down to a lot of belief now. I have never felt that. (And it wasn't from lack of trying). I don't know how to go about feeling that. Perhaps I need to try again. And perhaps it is not fair to dismiss certain things because I have not felt it, but it makes it a heck of a lot harder to have belief in certain things.

I am rambling now...off I go...

LT,

I think we could also say: "Disbeleif - a key to spiritual experience".

I think a spiritual experience can be had in disbelief,, sometimes our most spirtual moments can come when we are face with our disbelief in the WT,,we recognize we have been mislead for so long that we give up all belief or effort to beleive this can create a vacum where there once was the WT beleif system,,this vacum can make us turn inward to such a degree that we find spirituality not in a system of doctrine but in our own deep inner self.

LT....when you get time....take a look at this and give me your opinion if you wish.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/james_still/john_context.html

Gumby