The Disfellowshipping of Jane

Hi Jst2laws,

Yep ... been there ... done that ... I have sat on both sides of the JC arrangement. It was not fun on either side ...but, when I was there, we were not as nice as you were ... we did things far more painful to the alleged sinner ... we grilled them for details (not me but the other Elders - I didn't have the guts to ask for the details - but I also did not have the guts at the time to stop it.) Then, we did NOT disfellowhip, but kept them around to grill them more every three months as we determined whether they were continuing to be repentant. Real life example:

The follow-up meetings were less grilling, but we started off easy and became more inquisitive:

I did not like it, and I am glad that I resigned being an Elder.

I remember the humiliating detail I had to go into during my own JC for sex. Man, the lewd detail they demanded! Sick, dude.

I refuse to call it fornication or immorality or porneia or anything like that. It's sex. It was fun, and I'd do it again!

CZAR

Yes all sounds familiar to me -- glad I am not an elder anymore either. I swear soem elders "got off" on information like this though

One thing I'm really glad about is that I never had to sit this side of a JC.

Thinking of such an experience, I'm all the more respectful of people like Steve and Jim who have, but later had the guts (or heart) to admit how silly that was, despite of all the guilt involved. So many people in that situation just harden their hearts down to the end.

I love this particular "Gospel" which stands complete in three words: do not judge (and you won't be judged). No "belief" nor "work", no "ransom sacrifice" required. Just do not judge. The biggest challenge to a religious mind perhaps.

Well meaning elders have no choice but to follow Watchtower rules when it comes to the judicial process. Elders, themselves are scared of doing the wrong thing when it comes to following the rules. Perhaps if some elders wanted to do it their way vs. the Society way, the elders might not get legal help if something is challanged. The Society always had a way of making the elders feel that they could find themselves alone---with legal problems unless they followed the letter of Society law.

The oral sex stupidity is what sent me over the edge. My Dad, a non JW, told me on more than one occasion, while I was growing up, that what folks did in their private lives was their business and no one elses. I sat on one JC which involved oral sex and suffered thru the entire process. We didn't ask detailed questions nor  were they df'd, but it was enough to make me almost throw up. Later the WTS flip flopped on this issue and then I really got angry.

This all happened over 20 years ago and I can still see the faces of that young couple. I felt dirty then, I feel dirty now. It is something that will not go away.   Bug

 

Hi (((((Steve)))))!

I have had a couple of close friends that had to go before the elders and were disfellowshipped for sexual misconduct. 

One friend was disfellowshipped because she didn't cry when she went to the elders, they told her that they didn't feel she was truly sorry because she didn't shed a tear.

Another had an affair with a married man (an elder at the time) and when she went to the elders they asked very explicit questions about their sex acts.  This same elder that she had the affair with also had an affair with her fleshly sister. 

I could go on and on...there were even situations like this within my immediate family. 

I have never understood why they needed such graphic information...are elders trained to ask such questions?

been there; done that.

After full time pioneering for four years, I left the "full time preaching work" to attend college to study architecture.  This was back in 1977. And since my father was an Elder, we were given a very hard time.   When I returned from studying in Italy, I was met with a judicial committee where I was accused of fornication.   A  young sister from the congregation ( who my parents said was interested in me; she was from a dysfunctional, untheocratric, family) told the elders that I told her I had "committed fornication" while abroad.

Truth is, at that age I had not even become sexually active, being from that pioneering background and mindset.  I was too afraid to even experiment with a cigarette. ( that was a good thing) 

It played itself out in loud, showy displays of power and anger from the local elders.  The meetings were always at nite in the kingdom hall library, and the leading elder ( I do not remember if he was the PO at the time, )  screamed at me , waving his finger, like I was some criminal; that I was a liar.   My father sat patiently next to me, we listened and I denied all the charges, because, in fact they were all false.  The elders all were  all irrational . I suspect that these elders from the Huntington congregation back then  had something to prove, and that young pioneers cannot just leave the preaching work and go to college without being "marked".

They even produced this young sister at one of the meetings and she called me a liar to my face.  After 2 or 3 meetings I told my father I had had enough; and that I was not going to any more judicial meetings. When the leading elder threatened me with DF, I told my father ( who was an Elder, but he was supportive of me) that I was going to sue the Elders.  I contacted a  prosecution lawyer and threatened to sue every elder of the Huntington congregation for slander and harassment.  They were each sent warning letters  from the attorney, who was prepared to proceed with the action. 

It seems that the elders took the situation to the CO, who took it up to Watchtower and the direction came back to " do nothing".  My lawyer at the time claims that WT did not want the negative publicity, and the elders realized that they would have been left holding the bag of legal defense to protect themselves and any assets ( like losing their house) they might have had. My father claimed that they were  "railroading" me towards  disfellowshipping, and another elder told hime that they had " secret investigations" against our family.  At that my father blasted them, told him what he thought of all of them personally, and resigned as an elder.  He and my mother faded away, just after I did.  My sisters faded away also . 

In hindsight this is all hilarious; at the time it was painful and stressfull and totally uneccessary. Life itself thows us enough curve balls without having to "create" situations.

regards, Frank

 

Odd... I've never heard of them doing that to an accused child molester.

It is awful.

I was 19 and very naive.    I was grilled by elders about very intimate things.   In fact, I hadn't had sex with my fiance, we'd done "stuff" duing our 2 years of dating but not actual sex.   Foolishly we thought we had to confess.   It was humiliating and I still feel humiliated thinking about it.   I guess that is one of the reasons I don't want to lay eyes on them again.

For over a year I had some of the worst stress I've ever felt in my life, which resulted in full blown anxiety and depression once were finally were married.

I'm glad that you guys can now post on this board and admit how you felt about it, and prove to everyone reading this that the Watchtower organisation and their rules and hierarchy are wrong, wrong, wrong.

Sirona

I have to admit when I was before the elders for sexual misconduct (and yes it included sex), they were pretty decent as well as how they asked and how much they pushed for details. Although I had already written to them many explicit details in a letter before the meeting so they would not have to ask as many questions and have me personally repeat them in front of them. It was still uncomfortable though. Hard to look in their faces knowing they were disgusted by what I had done.. especially when I had to admit about having a mulitple partner session as well as a Master/sub situation with a 'brother' (who wasn't, he lied to me).. I am still amazed given the situation they didn't disfellowship me then. I wish they had.

mpatrick I have never understood why they needed such graphic information...are elders trained to ask such questions?

 

Not necessarily ? but see my earlier comment ? many elders especially those brought up in the truth have not experienced oral sex and I think some of it is jealousy ? that is why they  disfellowship ? and  some DO GET OFF on the graphic talk

 

Shutterbug  The oral sex stupidity is what sent me over the edge. My Dad, a non JW, told me on more than one occasion, while I was growing up, that what folks did in their private lives was their business and no one else?s. I sat on one JC which involved oral sex and suffered thru the entire process. We didn't ask detailed questions nor  were they df'd, but it was enough to make me almost throw up. Later the WTS flip flopped on this issue and then I really got angry. This all happened over 20 years ago and I can still see the faces of that young couple. I felt dirty then, I feel dirty now. It is something that will not go away.

 

I feel the same way  -just totally unscriptural and none of anybody?s business

 

Sirona It was humiliating and I still feel humiliated thinking about it.  

 

Absolutely disgusting ? another reason why I just could not stand being an elder anymore ? knowing I have/was humiliating another human being ? it is so fu----g disgusting, unchristian, not what Christ would have done, unscriptural  --and I am now lost for words I am so upset

Amazing,

I loved your Justice Series.  Would you consider running them again?  I suspect only a handful of people here has seen them. 

Czar

"It was sex".   That's simple.  But the WT boys not only make a fuss over how to define porneia, but the JC's also fuss over definitions of "uncleanness" and then "loose conduct" with vague and contradicting guidelines on each of these.

Gaaawwwwd.  I'M FREE. 

Steve

You're a good man, Steve.

Anyone who walks on grounds of conscience after 40 years in a controlling religion has my utmost respect. I only wish that more of us had the courage to admit to our mistakes the way that you have.

Englishman.

Frank, great story! You should actually be thankful they tried to railroad you as it sounds like it helped get your parents out too!

Steve,



In the end you did her a favour I think..............



Branda

if she stayed out.. then yeah.. I agree.  As I said, I wish I had been kicked out when I went before the JC.

Personally I dont know how ANYONE could be that intruding into anyones lives. I am amazed that any of you stayed in it as long as you did. I am a real stupid person.But I know when the bible says "mind your own buisness" thats what it means.... We ALL knew we had to keep a clean bed..A young girl 17 years old has since told me how the three old men who was at her jc meeting asked her "did he put his finger in your vigina" did you have an orgasm????? Come on you men????? Dont tell me you didnt get your kicks. I am sickened to know this has been going on & is still going on....Sorry if this offends But I am SHOCKED by this thread.....

Mouthy yes this is shocking, but too live through a jc committee is no picnic.  They want every detail. I'll never forget mine where I was crying so much, that my nose was dripping, they didn't even notice that embarrassing moment that I had to request a kleenex.  It was the most humiliating experience that I have ever had. to be a blubbering idiot in front of some perverted men (as far as I was concerned) getting their jollies, letting them know all the nasty details, how may times, did you use a condom, yadda, yadda, yadda.  Makes me want to vomit when I think of it. 

 

But as I see it from jst2laws and others here that it was just as embarrassing to them as well.

What a god forsaken religion.:(

cj