Hi cyberguy,

:  To Allan F. and others, what means did you use to stop Judicial Committees from DF’ng you?

When a couple of elders called one day to inform me that, because they had heard I was getting remarried, they needed to talk to me about "keeping the congregation clean", at first I told them that I was never a member of their congregation (which was true; I merely lived in their territory), and that I wouldn't talk to them and they should bugger off. Then I realized that this might not be enough to make them leave me alone, so the next day I called one elder late, after the KMS/Service meeting and had a little discussion with him. I told him that I was no threat to his congregation since I most certainly didn't want contact with any of them. I also reminded him that I was never a member of his congregation, since I had moved into their territory when I had already been inactive for two years, and so they had no authority over me, by their own rules. Then I laid it on the line. I literally commanded him and his buddies to make no announcements to anyone, or even discuss anything about my status or lack thereof as a JW, publicly or privately. I said that if I found out they had violated my command, I would do everything legally necessary to protect my good name in the community. I asked him if he understood what that meant, and he said he did. Then I said, "If you leave me alone, I will leave you alone. Deal?" He agreed to abide by my wishes. That was the end of it.

: Since I was baptized as a teenager, can I use this to my advantage, since I was not of "legal" age to enter into a contract with the Watchtower Society (I was baptized in 1973)? Also, in my 30’s I was appointed an "elder." Does this make it a little more difficult to use the "baptized-as-a-teenager" defense?

So far as I know, yes. From what I understand, the courts will say that when you became an adult, you reaffirmed the decision to join that you had made as a minor. I believe that this is part of standard contract law.

: Thank you in advance. I’m sure there are others out there with the same problem I have! I want-out, but I'm fearful of the repercussions and the loss of my relationship with my fleshly brother (an JW elder). Once again, thank you for consideration.

There are plenty in similar circumstances, locked in by the nasty repercussions of leaving. What you do, and what might even be successful, depends greatly on the personalities of the particular elders you must deal with. Not all elders would have been cowed as the one I threatened was. Only you can decide what to do. You could have a one-on-one discussion with a single elder -- you don't want them to have "two witnesses" to gang up on you and tell lies -- and do something like I did. But of course, word would probably get out to your relatives one way or another. That would precipitate the very crisis you want to avoid.

But I must ask: why do you feel the need to do something right now? Are you already on the hot seat? If not, it might be better to just stay away from meetings and all JW-related activities and let it set until they forget about you.

AlanF

Sorry to hear you're on the hot seat! But do give me a buzz whenever you feel like it.

AlanF

I'm not in the hot seat yet, but if it should come to it, I have thought about using the depression line. There would be some honesty to it... dealing with this whole situation has certainly been an emotional strain!

One thought I had, however, was that if a lot of us start doing that, it might make life more difficult for loyal dubs who suffer from depression... it might cause them to be viewed with suspicion.

I'm not saying that automatically rules out the option... I guess I was just wondering if I'm the only one who was concerned about that.

Hello Cyberguy.  I'm not sure if this will help, but I thought I'd tell you what worked for my wife and I. 

We both did the slow fade thing, but once we decided to stop completely, we had the elders banging on our door on the weekends.  We never answered it of course.  And they would try to call, but we had caller ID at the time, (got rid of our home phone completely now and just have cells) so we didn't answer the phone.  But they started coming by unannounced on weekend mornings (cause it was convenient for them since they have to go peddle books anyway) so I decided to take this approach:

On a Tuesday evening when I knew the PO would be gone, I called his house and left him a message not for anyone to stop by our house at all anymore or to call us.  I told him I knew where the kingdom hall was and I knew where he lived.....and if things changed for us, we'd let him know.  I did tell him I didn't appreciate him or others coming by here unannounced. I told him that he should respect our wishes and not bother us again.

And that was about 10 months ago, and to this day, we haven't been bothered by him or anyone else from that congregation.  We leave them alone, and they leave us alone.  I'm not saying this will work in every situation, but for us it's worked great. 

You're absolutely right, Nicolau. Unfortunately, the courts -- where it counts -- have not yet seen dishonest cult recruiting methods in this light. I hope that some day some people start winning cases against destructive cults on this basis. Constitutional guarantees of freedom of religion need to have limits, as the recent case of Vicki Boer has so clearly shown. The limits need to be at the line where corporate religious rights begin stepping on individual rights.

AlanF

Think about sending them a Baptism Nullification letter, if they continue to bother you. Since you were once an elder, and therefore a "prominent" member of the congregation, this may be your only option. Of course, if you can move somewhere out of the county or out of the state, that would work, too.

One of many Baptism Nullification postings is found here:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/54612/1.ashx

Technically, they can choose to disassociate you if they so desire and there's not much you can do about it. And the "fade-to-black" plan may not work for you... Caller ID helps, but they will forever be out to track you down and convince you of the errors of your ways, unless you cut the cord... Let it be on their heads for what happens after that.

By the way, we did the BN letter, and then ran into our Sister and Brother-In-Law in a parking lot this weekend, some 2.5 months after the letter, and they still spoke to us and did not shun us or shy away, as we expected that they might.

Think of yourself as another Rosa Parks, who refuses to sit on the back of the bus... only you refuse to be manipulated by the WTS's two-ways-out manifesto: you leave you are DA'd or DF'd... Were you ever told that before you were baptised? Think about it...

The choice is ultimately yours, but I can say that we are delighted to be out, out, out... and after 5 weeks of being plagued with calls and visits, no one comes by anymore! Yeah!

In this situation, one also has to be very careful what one tells and discusses with JW relaltives.  If they think you are "getting weak in the truth" they may arrange to have the elders call upon you...even in some cases accompanying them to your door.

Recently,while visiting the family,  a person spoke to his brother-in-law (an elder) about his personal feelings concerning the organization and doctrines.   Although they lived in different states, this elder called the local elders to report this conversation. It ended up that this person was forced to send in his letter of disassociation.  He is now shunned by the entire family and old friends. 

Ironically, this brother-in-law elder told this person that there were many things about the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses that he questioned, too. But he said that if this person ever mentioned this to anyone else he would deny it.  This is probably typical of many people in the organization.  But they keep their questions and doubts  to themselves. 

The bricks and mortar that make up the Watchtower Society are crumbling.  The majority will probably try to keep it propped up.  But the Watchtower can ill afford any major changes that will shake the whole foundation.  Yet, if it does not soon address some of its major problems, the structure could fall in upon itself.