What Most Needs to be Changed

I selfishly want to say that the disfellowshipping policy needs to change, but... I would have to say the blood issue first, because people are DYING... then the pedophile one, because that's just bullshit that they protect pedophiles. Perv's need to be stomped... and then disfellowshipping. 

Jst2laws

Ulimately I think the teaching that they alone have the right to determine what the Bible means and then to exert "authority" over the members bears the greatest influence over the JWs. Without this "authority" they have nothing. People would be free to make choices based on personal conscience.  They use this "authority" to control and manipulate, to instill fear of elders, the society and of God. They use this "authority" when it suits them to claim divine inspiration and renounce it when that suits them. They are able to flip-flop on their teachings without the members objections because they always claim they alone have this "authority".  Remove the authority and the whole thing would collapse.

I think that for most of us who have left one we realize that the society does not have divine authority they have no hold on us and are free.

Postured authority is a common denominator among cultic religious groups.  The Watchtower ought to have a patent on it.  The supposed authority that God has given to the fallacious and deceitful slave is really is the heart and soul of JW world, I would think this would be the last doctrine they would consider dropping.  It is the iron fist.

They ain't gonna change.

I think the disfellowshipping / shunnig one as it underpins a lot of the other sanctions and really give the "power" they need to perform all the other abuses (while it in itself is an abuse)

Without the DFing/DAing and shunning, would they have got away with the blood policy? ... with the pedophile policy?

Get rid of the last one, and the first two would probably take care of themselves.

 

NaruNaruChan

I understand the feelings you express.  However, I am more concerned with reporting the "perv" so the victim gets help (almost never obtained under present WT policy).  Whether or not he gets stomped is secondary to me but understandable.  He needs help too.  Or jail.  Whatever it takes to prevent any further harm.  Whatever it takes I can related to the term "stomped", it covers it all. 

DanTheMan,

I have been absent lately, but that is the first time I have seen that.  Very Good for you or who ever came up withy it.

 

LadyLee,

I agree.  The control is the problem.  The Faithful and Discreet Slave dogma is the basis of their authority, their Disfellowshipping policy is the tool they use through their judicial committees.   It amounts to the legislative, judiciary and the executive branchs of "governing" with the foundation of authority laid not on a constitution as in secular government but Divine Right of the religious ELECT. 

If the authority were to be underminded the tools to enforce would disappear.

Nice to talk again LadyLee

Jst2laws

 

 

 

Jst2laws

 

 

 

I agree with Simon & Ed.



If the DF policy was changed, so much would crumble. By shunning, the congeration is still "safe" from corruption.



By anyone voicing their opinion or just asking a logical questions are immediately brought under suspension (at least at my hall they were). I remember my dad not letting me associate with certain families, because they weren't "completely" in the truth yet. I remember someone questioning the blood policy when I was pretty young. I don't remeber them staying around long.



I always knew which family was going to "be in trouble" because a week or 2 before I wouldn't be allowed to associate with them. (My dad was an elder)



When I questioned my father regarding DFing, he would either ignore me or put it off saying "it is Jehovahs way of keeping the organization clean". That was the heaviest that weighed on my mind.

I must agree with this wholeheartedly. As we've expressed many times, they've taken the place of God himself by this teaching i.e. personification of God in the "FDS", read organisation. They've also supplanted the role of Jesus himself as our mediator with the FDS.

An onerous teaching and an odious one!

Cheers to you, Ozzie

1. Teaching that true Christianity is an organization instead of a way of life
2. Centralizing authority in an organization instead of letting Christ be the head of each Christian
3. Claiming salvation is dependent upon belonging to the JW denomination
4. Teaching that the early Christians were led by a governing body
5. Interpreting Jewish restoration prophecies as fulfilled in "the anointed remnant"
6. Teaching that Jesus appointed the "anointed remnant" as his true church in 1919
7. Viewing the so-called "anointed" class (actually, the governing body) as God's channel and prophet
8. Placing WT literature above the Bible
9. Claiming that the "faithful and discreet slave" is the "anointed" class rather than each individual Christian who shows himself or herself to be responsible and obedient to Christ
10. Class distinctions such as "governing body," "anointed remnant" and "great crowd"
11. Class distinctions such as publishers, auxiliary pioneers, regular pioneers, special pioneers, circuit overseers, district overseers, Bethelites, Governing Body, etc.
12. Teaching that the Scriptures are directly addressed only to "the remnant of anointed ones"
13. Creating a climate of fear by authoritarianism
14. Keeping meeting attendance and field service records as a gauge of an individual's spirituality
15. Controlling what individual JWs may read of Bible-related publications that are not produced by the WT Society
16. Claiming that spiritual food comes from the "anointed" class whereas nearly all the writers of WT publications are members of the "other sheep" class
17. Teaching that Jesus is not the mediator between God and the "great crowd" of Revelation 7
18. Teaching that only the "anointed" must be born again
19. Teaching that the "great crowd" are not begotten or anointed by the Holy Spirit
20. Teaching that the "great crowd" are not members of the bride of Christ
21. Teaching that the "great crowd" are God's grandchildren and not his sons and daughters
22. Inviting only the "anointed" to partake at the memorial
23. Teaching that only "anointed" JWs will receive immortality in the resurrection
24. Teaching that the resurrection of the "anointed" precedes the resurrection of the "other sheep" and that it has already begun
25. Teaching that Abraham and the faithful men and women of old are not among the holy ones who will rule with Christ in his Kingdom
26. Falsifying the fact that Charles Russell predicted for 1914 the end of the world, not Christ's return
27. Lying about a so-called "increase" in earthquakes, warfare, famines, persecution, etc., since 1914
28. Teaching that Jesus returned in 1914 and is "invisibly present" since then
29. Organizationally requiring no blood transfusions instead of letting it be a matter of conscience
30. Teaching that it's wrong to celebrate birthdays and all holidays
31. Forbidding attendance and participation at other churches
32. Defining apostasy as against an organization instead of against God
33. Being quick to disfellowship instead of making efforts to restore persons who have done something wrong
34. Teaching that the "congregation" of Matthew 18:17 is the body of elders
35. Holding heresy trials and disciplinary hearings in secrecy from the rest of the congregation
36. Conducting heresy trials of members who have doubts or who think differently upon the Scriptures
37. Withholding information that would be helpful to persons who have been accused of wrongdoing
38. Prohibiting fellowship with disassociated persons
39. Covering over and hiding damaging facts about the JW organization
40. Denying that the JW organization is part of Babylon the Great
    
    

 

What a list! It's amazing to see how much wrong there is!

fjtoth,

Is that the whole list or just the top 40?

Devon

LOL@Devon!   Good one.

Those 40 are what most of us can think of in just ten minutes or less! Give us another ten minutes and the list will be at least twice as long.

 

Hello Simon and your wonderful family,

Without the DFing/DAing and shunning, would they have got away with the blood policy? ...

Without the Authority they grant themselves with their Faithful and Discreet Slave doctrine, would they get away with their "DFing/DAing and shunning" policy?

 

Ed, and Mystery

Get rid of the last one, and the first two would probably take care of themselves  -  Ed

I agree with Simon & Ed    - Mystery

You are both right in what you say.  I have been of the same thoughts for almost two years.  But how can they ENFORCE the disfellowshipping teaching, even dividing families without the power of some authority greater than natural affection and family ties? 

Is it not the teaching that grants them the AUTHORITY that should be the first to be cracked?

It is hard to question the specific doctrines of a religion.  Every religion has what it thinks are it's unique teachings that make it the "only true religion".  But what makes so many suffer on this board is that those who do not line up with those teachings are disfellowshipped by the AUTHORITY of the "Faithful and Discreet Slave".  The Catholics at one time claimed such authority; it was called the Dark Ages.  Some Moslem's claim to have such authority, but they have come under extreme scrutiny lately. 

Disfellowshipping is an OLD tool of control but it requires unquestioning subordinance of its followers for the tool to be useful.  That hinges on AUTHORITY.   What do they use to gain such authority?

Just imagine 6,000,000 JW's who no longer believe that the GB can dictate to them what they can believe, what they can do, but is only a spiritual guide with no authority to dictate conscience matters or punish thinkers! 

Is not Jesus supposed to be the Head of the Congregation? 

as the Christ also is head of the congregation, he being a savior of [this] body Eph 5:23

What if the whole 'association of brothers' suddenly realized that no MAN has the right to make rules or judge

 ⁴

 Who are you to judge the house servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls"  Rom 14:4

Not likely the JW's would come to realize this, but does it not show it is usurped authority that controls the lives of believing JW's, allowing ungodly concepts such as 'disfellowshipping' to by used as tools to control?

Jst2laws

 

 

fjtoth,

Excellent list. 

You have a good focus on the issues.  Please repost your list as a new topic and encourage others to add to it. 

Jst2laws

Hi Jst2laws,

I'd say that the most devastating teaching is that God speaks  through the faithful and discreet slave.  I remember talking to a friend about the molestation issue.  I mentioned Erica's case and described what happened to her.  Although he was sympathetic, he asked me what did I think the Governing Body thought about this situation.  I told him I didn't know since I was unaware of any comment that they made on the case.  He took that to mean that I no longer had faith in the Governing Body.  He was unable to side with the victim in this case because he has been so thoroughly indoctrinated to believe that the GB are God's spokesmen that he is unable to reason apart from their influence.  Rather than sympathizing with Erica's plight in all of this he took the side of the Governing Body. 

So when an injustice is committed by some non-jw, the Witness is outraged and expects that God will one day bring retribution upon the offender.  Yet, if the Governing Body were to commit a similar crime or even to cover up serious wrongdoing in the congregation, then the sense of moral outrage is glaringly lacking.  Then the average Witness goes into defense mode.  That is scary because it shows how deeply the average JW is under the control of the faithful and discreet slave.  It's my opinion that if the average JW realized that the parable of the FDS was nothing more than an illustration by Jesus of the responsibility of each individual Christian, then the authority of the GB would crumble. So, that's why the GB fights so hard when their authority is called into question.  It's a matter of survival.

Mr. Shakita        

Hello Shakita,

HEY!  I just noticed you have more post than I do.  This is good for you. 

It is that simple, yet it is so imposible.  The awesome AUTHORITY of the Society precludes the posibility of even considering that the FDS does not really exist in the scriptures.  But again you seem to point out that the issue is the PERCIEVED AUTHORITY of the FDS that grants the control resulting in so much loyalty and harm.

 

Ozzie,

So good to hear from you again.  If you will not come to visit us in the near future you may force Joy2bfree and I to fly to your world to visit you.  We may have another event in the fall to entice you and Ms Ozzie to fly to the States and enjoy the beach.  Somehow this will happen in the future.

Jst2laws

The attitude that one can NEVER do enough.  It is so deflating when one goes to FIVE meetings every week every month for years, goes out in field service which is a very unnatural thing to do anywhere from 5 to 90 hrs month, give up a very promising carreer in order to do more for the religion, give many many talks in front of 100 people countless times and the list goes on and on and on and on.  Then you go to meeting or assembly and all they do is kick you in the teeth and tell you to do MORE!!!  I mean come on, if they were coaches for a sports team their whole team would have quit on them a long time ago. And that's exactly what many have done!