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When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times?

    simplesally When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times? posted Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:45:00 GMT (7/25/2002) edit


    United States California

    Post 336 of 4423
    Since 1/30/2002
    Since Russell didn't tie the Corporation into nice neat religious package and didn't ward off all other religions as evil, when did the practice of disfellowshipping start?

    When did they decided to formulate judicial committees and start reproving, marking and df'ing?

    dungbeetle Re: When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times? posted Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:57:00 GMT (7/25/2002) edit



    Post 2472 of 2535
    Since 9/5/2001

    At the very least it began with Olin Moyle in 1943. 

     

    But I believe it began with Maria Russell in 1900 if not before. Russell had Maria thrown off the editorship of the Watchtower, he put her in a home without servants, wrote letters to her friends and ordered maria shunned, and cut off her monetary support.  All in an effort to keep people from believing anything she had to say.

    It didn't work then---and it won't work now.

     

    outoftheorg Re: When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times? posted Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:05:00 GMT (7/25/2002) edit

    United States

    Post 85 of 2309
    Since 6/18/2002
    If I remember correctly, the congregations were told of the new program of disfellowshipping in the very early 50s. This made it an official policy of the wbts but I think the shunning thing goes farther back than the 1950s. Then once it was instituted they added things to the list of offenses. The earliest addition I recall is the smoking issue being added to the original list. 
    onacruse Re: When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times? posted Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:59:00 GMT (7/25/2002) edit



    Post 79 of 8836
    Since 7/3/2002

    The following is from Expanded Biblical Comments, summarizing WTS policies from 1879-1916.

     

     

    Matthew 18:17

    If he shall neglect to hear -- But not sooner. F289; Q104:2 The advice

    of these brethren should be followed by both. R5134:3; F289

    If the injurious actions continue. R4985:2, 5134:3

    In the event of the concurrence of the brethren that the wrong is being

    done and of the refusal of the wrong-doer to desist. R5782:5

    Even if the witnesses agree with us and the wrong-doer is not corrected,

    we are still not at liberty to make mention of the case to others. R3030:3

    Tell it -- The elders might constitute themselves into a Board or

    Committee and get one of their number to look into the case and see if the

    wrong could not be stopped or adjusted. Q479:4

    Facts, evil deeds or evil doctrines, and not evil surmisings nor rumors,

    are the basis of Scriptural disfellowship. R3035:5

    Unto the church -- The consecrated. R2666:3

    To patiently hear definite, positive charges of sufficient importance.

    R4985:4

    Not to be punished but, as a last resort, for reproof and correction.

    R3744:6

    In the presence of the accused. F415; R4985:4, 4281:5

    If it is considered of sufficient importance as concerns himself, or the

    Church, or the truth. F291, 292, 415 In the case that the matter had gone

    beyond the individual, and had somehow involved the whole congregation.

    Q479:4

    There must be brought evidence to show that there is really a matter to

    come before the Church, and that it is not merely a case of busybodying.

    R4985:3

    Up to this time, the case should not be discussed outside of these

    witnesses. R5409:2

    In proportion as they are saints they will desire to say no more to anyone

    respecting the weaknesses or sins of anybody. F292

    First certifying the facts to the elders. F289

    The two witnesses should say to the elders of the Church that they have a

    case to present for a hearing, but they should not make charges. R4985:2

    The elders should call a special meeting to inform the Church of the case,

    and the Church should decide when to call a meeting to consider it. R4985:2

    For the one to state his trouble and the other to answer. R4985:4

    At no stage of the proceedings should unkind words be permitted. R4985:4

    It will be reasonable to expect that the voice of the Church in such a

    matter will be supernaturally guided, that truth and righteousness may

    triumph. R2666:4

    The Church's decision of the question is to be final, binding upon both.

    R5134:3, 4985:3

    Neglect to hear the church -- By not repenting and reforming. F290

    This is the highest tribunal. Brother should not go to law with brother in

    the worldly courts, however much he may feel himself aggrieved. R2666:4

    If either still have doubts as to the justice of the matter, he will

    surely obtain a blessing by giving full and hearty consent to the Lord's

    arrangements. R2666:4

    The vote of the Church should be unanimous, if possible, ignoring all

    partisanship. R4985:4

    The administration of discipline is not the function of the elders only,

    but of the entire Church. F289; Q479:3

    Their advice must not carry with it any penalty whatever. R4985:4; F290

    Let him be unto thee -- In carrying out the findings of the Church

    court, the matter rests with each individual; each must discern the

    justice of the decision for himself. F292

    As an heathen -- In that we can no longer have Christian fellowship with

    such. R1663:5*

    We would treat a heathen with justice and kindness and the love of pity,

    but not with the love of affection due to a brother in Christ. R1255:4

    Outside of your religious and social company, but not outside of your

    love, care and desire to help. (Rom. 12:19,20) R3801:3

    Not forbid attendance at meetings. The most would be to withdraw

    fellowship, refuse to visit their homes or to invite to our homes, and not

    appoint to any office in the class. R5954:3

    Lest our continued fellowshipping cause our influence to oppose the truth

    and favor the error, and thus make us sharers in the evil being done.

    R1255:1

    His punishment is not the object, but to secure repentance and reform. F290

    And a publican -- He is a brother still, but not in the best standing.

    R4985:5

    Deprived of any and all manifestations of brotherhood. F290

    Not appointing him to any position or honor in the Church. R5782:5,

    5134:3, 4985:5

    Not to be asked to offer prayer. R4985:5

    To be debarred from participation in the Lord's Supper. F474

    Treated in the kindly, courteous way in which we would treat any publican

    or Gentile, withholding the special rights, greetings or voting

    opportunities that belong to the Church. R3745:4

    Not to be harshly spoken of even after the separation, just as we are not

    to berate or rail against heathen men and publicans. F290

    In that we could no longer respect such as we would an honorable man of

    the world. R1663:5*

    But not injured or treated unkindly in any way. F303; R5134:3, 4985:5

    Disfellowshipped until he recognizes his wrong and makes amends to the

    extent of his ability. F293

    Taking heed to "speak evil of no man." (Titus 3:2) F290

    We are to distinguish between avoidance and appointment to honorable

    positions in the Church and the still different matter of disfellowship

    and cutting off from the body of Christ, the Church. R4318:4

    A complete separation from the Church. Until he has made a complete reform he should be thoroughly disowned by the Church. R5275:1

    Interesting to note that df'ing then was done by vote of the entire congregation.

     

    simplesally Re: When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times? posted Fri, 26 Jul 2002 05:07:00 GMT (7/26/2002) edit


    United States California

    Post 338 of 4423
    Since 1/30/2002
    onacruise, i just didn't get what you said.
    ozziepost Re: When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times? posted Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:40:00 GMT (7/26/2002) edit


    Australia New South Wales

    Post 3353 of 15014
    Since 2/5/2001

    I'm with outoftheorg on this. My recollection is that the modern DF procedures were introduced after WW2, in the early 1950s.

    Ozzie

    Edited by - ozziepost on 26 July 2002 2:40:32

    onacruse Re: When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times? posted Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:38:00 GMT (7/26/2002) edit



    Post 86 of 8836
    Since 7/3/2002

    Sally, I posted that info to show that df'ing was practiced virtually since the beginning of WTS. The two biggest differences were that 1) the decision to df was made by vote of the entire congregation, not by some selected committee of elders and 2) treatment of df'd ones was generally more moderate than modern policy (after all, Russell constantly referred to people of other religions as "brothers," a reflection of the more tolerant attitude of the Bible Students).

    The modern procedure of a Judicial Committee was instituted in the early '50s, as Ozzie and outoftheorg point out.

    Room 215 Re: When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times? posted Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:56:00 GMT (7/26/2002) edit



    Post 783 of 2124
    Since 4/16/2001
    Oz and outof are correct about the timing... the early 50s...but as practiced then and until the RayFranz/Dunlap/Sanchez witchunt of the early eighties, it was much less draconian than it is today.   It was regarded as an extreme ``last resort'' resolution and usually invoked only when the offender thumbed his/her nose at the committee/congeation/organization.
    thewiz Re: When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times? posted Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:34:00 GMT (7/26/2002) edit




    Post 436 of 499
    Since 8/20/2001
    it was done as soon as it was figured out that it was the quickest way to discredit someone and win the argument.
    Englishman Re: When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times? posted Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:20:00 GMT (7/26/2002) edit


    United Kingdom England, Somerset

    Post 4236 of 11805
    Since 2/4/2001

    I agree that DF'ing was much less common back in the 50's and 60's. Most offences brought about a probation, sometimes announced but usually secret. Having spent time on a secret probation (for loving my neighbour) I can tell you that this meant no public talks, no service meeting assignments although MS was OK, no praying at meetings, no ever being on my own with a sister.

    All very esteem robbing of course.

    Englishman.

    ozziepost Re: When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times? posted Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:43:00 GMT (7/27/2002) edit


    Australia New South Wales

    Post 3364 of 15014
    Since 2/5/2001

    All very esteem robbing of course.

    Naturally, because it's not the Christian way.

    Cheers, Ozzie

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