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When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times?
simplesally
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When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times?
posted Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:45:00 GMT
(7/25/2002)
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![]() CaliforniaPost 336 of 4423 Since 1/30/2002 |
Since Russell didn't tie the Corporation into nice neat religious package and didn't ward off all other religions as evil, when did the practice of disfellowshipping start?When did they decided to formulate judicial committees and start reproving, marking and df'ing?
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Re: When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times?
posted Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:57:00 GMT
(7/25/2002)
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Post 2472 of 2535 Since 9/5/2001 |
At the very least it began with Olin Moyle in 1943. But I believe it began with Maria Russell in 1900 if not before. Russell had Maria thrown off the editorship of the Watchtower, he put her in a home without servants, wrote letters to her friends and ordered maria shunned, and cut off her monetary support. All in an effort to keep people from believing anything she had to say.It didn't work then---and it won't work now.
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Re: When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times?
posted Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:05:00 GMT
(7/25/2002)
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Post 85 of 2309 Since 6/18/2002 |
If I remember correctly, the congregations were told of the new program of disfellowshipping in the very early 50s. This made it an official policy of the wbts but I think the shunning thing goes farther back than the 1950s. Then once it was instituted they added things to the list of offenses. The earliest addition I recall is the smoking issue being added to the original list.
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Re: When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times?
posted Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:59:00 GMT
(7/25/2002)
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Post 79 of 8836 Since 7/3/2002 |
The following is from Expanded Biblical Comments, summarizing WTS policies from 1879-1916.
Matthew 18:17If he shall neglect to hear -- But not sooner. F289; Q104:2 The adviceof these brethren should be followed by both. R5134:3; F289If the injurious actions continue. R4985:2, 5134:3In the event of the concurrence of the brethren that the wrong is beingdone and of the refusal of the wrong-doer to desist. R5782:5Even if the witnesses agree with us and the wrong-doer is not corrected,we are still not at liberty to make mention of the case to others. R3030:3Tell it -- The elders might constitute themselves into a Board orCommittee and get one of their number to look into the case and see if thewrong could not be stopped or adjusted. Q479:4Facts, evil deeds or evil doctrines, and not evil surmisings nor rumors,are the basis of Scriptural disfellowship. R3035:5Unto the church -- The consecrated. R2666:3To patiently hear definite, positive charges of sufficient importance.R4985:4Not to be punished but, as a last resort, for reproof and correction.R3744:6In the presence of the accused. F415; R4985:4, 4281:5If it is considered of sufficient importance as concerns himself, or theChurch, or the truth. F291, 292, 415 In the case that the matter had gonebeyond the individual, and had somehow involved the whole congregation.Q479:4There must be brought evidence to show that there is really a matter tocome before the Church, and that it is not merely a case of busybodying.R4985:3Up to this time, the case should not be discussed outside of thesewitnesses. R5409:2In proportion as they are saints they will desire to say no more to anyonerespecting the weaknesses or sins of anybody. F292First certifying the facts to the elders. F289The two witnesses should say to the elders of the Church that they have acase to present for a hearing, but they should not make charges. R4985:2The elders should call a special meeting to inform the Church of the case,and the Church should decide when to call a meeting to consider it. R4985:2For the one to state his trouble and the other to answer. R4985:4At no stage of the proceedings should unkind words be permitted. R4985:4It will be reasonable to expect that the voice of the Church in such amatter will be supernaturally guided, that truth and righteousness maytriumph. R2666:4The Church's decision of the question is to be final, binding upon both.R5134:3, 4985:3Neglect to hear the church -- By not repenting and reforming. F290This is the highest tribunal. Brother should not go to law with brother inthe worldly courts, however much he may feel himself aggrieved. R2666:4If either still have doubts as to the justice of the matter, he willsurely obtain a blessing by giving full and hearty consent to the Lord'sarrangements. R2666:4The vote of the Church should be unanimous, if possible, ignoring allpartisanship. R4985:4The administration of discipline is not the function of the elders only,but of the entire Church. F289; Q479:3Their advice must not carry with it any penalty whatever. R4985:4; F290Let him be unto thee -- In carrying out the findings of the Churchcourt, the matter rests with each individual; each must discern thejustice of the decision for himself. F292As an heathen -- In that we can no longer have Christian fellowship withsuch. R1663:5*We would treat a heathen with justice and kindness and the love of pity,but not with the love of affection due to a brother in Christ. R1255:4Outside of your religious and social company, but not outside of yourlove, care and desire to help. (Rom. 12:19,20) R3801:3Not forbid attendance at meetings. The most would be to withdrawfellowship, refuse to visit their homes or to invite to our homes, and notappoint to any office in the class. R5954:3Lest our continued fellowshipping cause our influence to oppose the truthand favor the error, and thus make us sharers in the evil being done.R1255:1His punishment is not the object, but to secure repentance and reform. F290And a publican -- He is a brother still, but not in the best standing.R4985:5Deprived of any and all manifestations of brotherhood. F290Not appointing him to any position or honor in the Church. R5782:5,5134:3, 4985:5Not to be asked to offer prayer. R4985:5To be debarred from participation in the Lord's Supper. F474Treated in the kindly, courteous way in which we would treat any publicanor Gentile, withholding the special rights, greetings or votingopportunities that belong to the Church. R3745:4Not to be harshly spoken of even after the separation, just as we are notto berate or rail against heathen men and publicans. F290In that we could no longer respect such as we would an honorable man ofthe world. R1663:5*But not injured or treated unkindly in any way. F303; R5134:3, 4985:5Disfellowshipped until he recognizes his wrong and makes amends to theextent of his ability. F293Taking heed to "speak evil of no man." (Titus 3:2) F290We are to distinguish between avoidance and appointment to honorablepositions in the Church and the still different matter of disfellowshipand cutting off from the body of Christ, the Church. R4318:4A complete separation from the Church. Until he has made a complete reform he should be thoroughly disowned by the Church. R5275:1Interesting to note that df'ing then was done by vote of the entire congregation.
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simplesally
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Re: When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times?
posted Fri, 26 Jul 2002 05:07:00 GMT
(7/26/2002)
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![]() CaliforniaPost 338 of 4423 Since 1/30/2002 |
onacruise, i just didn't get what you said.
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ozziepost
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Re: When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times?
posted Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:40:00 GMT
(7/26/2002)
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![]() New South WalesPost 3353 of 15014 Since 2/5/2001 |
I'm with outoftheorg on this. My recollection is that the modern DF procedures were introduced after WW2, in the early 1950s.
Ozzie
Edited by - ozziepost on 26 July 2002 2:40:32 |
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Re: When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times?
posted Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:38:00 GMT
(7/26/2002)
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Post 86 of 8836 Since 7/3/2002 |
Sally, I posted that info to show that df'ing was practiced virtually since the beginning of WTS. The two biggest differences were that 1) the decision to df was made by vote of the entire congregation, not by some selected committee of elders and 2) treatment of df'd ones was generally more moderate than modern policy (after all, Russell constantly referred to people of other religions as "brothers," a reflection of the more tolerant attitude of the Bible Students).The modern procedure of a Judicial Committee was instituted in the early '50s, as Ozzie and outoftheorg point out.
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Re: When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times?
posted Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:56:00 GMT
(7/26/2002)
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Post 783 of 2124 Since 4/16/2001 |
Oz and outof are correct about the timing... the early 50s...but as practiced then and until the RayFranz/Dunlap/Sanchez witchunt of the early eighties, it was much less draconian than it is today. It was regarded as an extreme ``last resort'' resolution and usually invoked only when the offender thumbed his/her nose at the committee/congeation/organization.
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Re: When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times?
posted Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:34:00 GMT
(7/26/2002)
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![]() Post 436 of 499 Since 8/20/2001 |
it was done as soon as it was figured out that it was the quickest way to discredit someone and win the argument.
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Englishman
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Re: When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times?
posted Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:20:00 GMT
(7/26/2002)
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![]() England, SomersetPost 4236 of 11805 Since 2/4/2001 |
I agree that DF'ing was much less common back in the 50's and 60's. Most offences brought about a probation, sometimes announced but usually secret. Having spent time on a secret probation (for loving my neighbour) I can tell you that this meant no public talks, no service meeting assignments although MS was OK, no praying at meetings, no ever being on my own with a sister.All very esteem robbing of course.Englishman.
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ozziepost
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Re: When Did Df'ing Start in Modern Times?
posted Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:43:00 GMT
(7/27/2002)
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![]() New South WalesPost 3364 of 15014 Since 2/5/2001 |
All very esteem robbing of course.
Naturally, because it's not the Christian way.
Cheers, Ozzie
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