Why JWs should soft-pedal the "Divine Name"

From the Watchtower's own website:

http://www.watchtower.org/e/na/index.htm

How Is God's Name Pronounced?

The truth is, nobody knows for sure how the name of God was originally pronounced. Why not? Well, the first language used in writing the Bible was Hebrew, and when the Hebrew language was written down, the writers wrote only consonants—not vowels. Hence, when the inspired writers wrote God's name, they naturally did the same thing and wrote only the consonants.

While ancient Hebrew was an everyday spoken language, this presented no problem. The pronunciation of the Name was familiar to the Israelites and when they saw it in writing they supplied the vowels without thinking (just as, for an English reader, the abbreviation "Ltd." represents "Limited" and "bldg." represents "building").

Two things happened to change this situation. First, a superstitious idea arose among the Jews that it was wrong to say the divine name out loud; so when they came to it in their Bible reading they uttered the Hebrew word 'Adho·nai' ("Sovereign Lord"). Further, as time went by, the ancient Hebrew language itself ceased to be spoken in everyday conversation, and in this way the original Hebrew pronunciation of God's name was eventually forgotten.

In order to ensure that the pronunciation of the Hebrew language as a whole would not be lost, Jewish scholars of the second half of the first millennium C.E. invented a system of points to represent the missing vowels, and they placed these around the consonants in the Hebrew Bible. Thus, both vowels and consonants were written down, and the pronunciation as it was at that time was preserved.

When it came to God's name, instead of putting the proper vowel signs around it, in most cases they put other vowel signs to remind the reader that he should say 'Adho·nai'. From this came the spelling Iehouah, and, eventually, Jehovah became the accepted pronunciation of the divine name in English. This retains the essential elements of God's name from the Hebrew original.

reniaa:

Well, that is in fact what he HAS allowed with the name Jehovah.  Jehovah is a latinized, then anglicized version of the Hebrew word for Lord: 'Adho·nai' .

"Jehovah" doesn't come from the tetragramatton.  It comes from "Lord". 

But in actual day-to-day practice JWs ACT like they have the inside scoop on what God wants to be called, when it's really just a sad self-delusion based on Rutherford's effective use of "us vs. them" Theology. 

Maybe this quote from Leolaia about the Divine Name brochure will make my point better:

That just made my head hurt.  If you want to clarify it a bit I'll give it a go, but for now you get a "W" on Clear & Understandable.   Just a good-natured rib there.

Hey, good news!  The Theocratic Ministry School doesn't make you sit there and listen to a dweeb like me tell you what he didn't like about your talk anymore.

OM

LOL @ Sinis.

I'm sure the permutations are infinite.

OM

Yes the permutations may be infinite but the results are all the same - a flaming asshole God!!! Thus why pedal the name of a being who means man harm, and treated his "chosen" people like whale shit?

That is almost akin to a Jew running around pimping Adolf Hitler at every chance he gets - it illogical, and damaging.

Gods name is Allah.  If it isn't, why did God allow the millions of Muslims to use Allah?

Sirona

For sinis:

Gradualism my friend.  Gradualism.

OM

Openmind...

she'll be back as soon as she can find more Slobbering Body stuff she can cut and paste.   The fact of the matter is, if I were a Dubbie I'd be damn sure that the pronounciation was correct before i used it...afterall the Guy is known for whacking kids who poke fun of the hair-challenged.

Now for my Andy Rooney impression...Have you ever noticed that Dubs really can't think logically on their own...they have to parrot something from Mother.  Didja ever wonder why...maybe it's because they're in a cult...shhh don't tell 'em.

-BONEZZ

Hi open mind

sorry about that last sentence I was getting sleepy and lol I'm not sure I can make sense of it myself this morning hehe :)

How important is pronounciation?

consider the following...

http://www.thenazareneway.com/yeshua_jesus_real_name.htm

What we pronounce now is the latinised form of jesus certainly not the original, so bonezz your arguement of if we can't pronouce it correctly we shouldn't at all is not a valid one or we would have to apply it to jesus too and change all our bibles etc to the original pronouciation.

How important are vowels? we have 21 consonants in english language and 5 vowels to pad out the words the hebrews written language shows you don't need vowels to know the word, THS S TH WY TH HBRW PPL WRT BCK THN, means "this is the way Hebrew people wrote back then," so they could easily pronounce words without vowels.

So YHWH is God's name there is no getting away from that and just because someone used the same vowels which are in Adonai doesn't make it Adonai, it just made it Jehovah because vowels are there for the pronounciation than the actual word as you can see from my example above.

So that is all the facts pertaining to JHWH, jehovah, Yahweh I guess in the end we all have to decide if using the english version of God's name Jehovah is better than a totally different word Lord, that can in the end change the whole meaning of a scripture?

and some cases make the scripture sound like the author had a stutter.

but in other cases just make me sad by it's loss

Reniaa,

I understand the points you've made. Many other readers on this site have made the same points ourselves hundreds of times over when we were full-fledged JWs.

This is getting wearysome for me and maybe for you too. How about if we see if we can reach either a consensus or an impasse on just one small aspect of this discussion.

Does the way God has allowed his name to be handled seem just a wee bit sloppy to you?

************************************

MEMO from the desk of God.

"Dear humans,

Here's 4 consonants. They're very important. Dont' use them in vain. Hold them sacred. Sanctify them.

But do what you feel like with the vowels.

I'm serious mankind. I will allow milleniums to pass and not say a peep about how to say my name. Even in the Last Days when I'm going to directly choose one tiny Christian sect as my ONE CHANNEL of life & death communication with humans, I still won't say anything about how to pronounce my name. I'll have no problem giving you all kinds of "new light" on everything from aluminum cookware to oral sex, but as for my name? Nada.

But don't forget!

My name is VERY IMPORTANT."

**************************************************

To me this makes no sense. And is why if I was promoting the JWs and the Bible I would not shout and wave about the Divine Name issue like it's something to be proud of. It's a weak/embarrasing point, not a strong point, IMO.

If I was trying to convince a thinking person who was questioning me along these lines, I'd probably say, 'Well it may not make much sense to you, but God has allowed it to happen this way, so we just do the best we can with what we have'. But the JWs try turning this issue into a strong selling point for their religion. It's not. IMO.

Could you humor me and try to address the question I asked above?

Does the way God has allowed his "4 consonants" to be handled seem just a wee bit sloppy to you?

OM

If the use of God's name was so important and the identifying mark of a true christian, why is it that Jesus never used it?

Jw's use it in every sentence but Jesus talked about his Father, prayed "our Father in the heaven", when he was dying on the cross or stake, he called on his Father and not on Jehovah.

Look at all the writers in the New Testament, how many of them used God's name in their  writing as often as the Watchtower does?

By the divine providence the book of Acts says that early followers of Christ were to be called Christians and not Jehovah's Witnesses. 

If the Creator could creat the billions of galaxies, he could have it made clear to us if his name was truly critical for his approval.   

hmmm I did sort of address it, I think it's important we have extremely old manuscripts of the bible to refer too, so men's own additions/subtractions can be seen and dealt with like the scripture added by overzealous catholics to support the trinity in one of the john books i think.

Maybe the simple point is... once written God is messing with his own "allowing man free-will" rule to directly influence what man then does to it! Only making sure as I said above we have the originals to use as cross references and then upto us how we use that knowledge.

Or alternatively he did allow his name to be obscured but not lost but now that begs the question why allow a Christian religion to use his name in this time? Is this sloppiness or maybe something done with a deliberate reason?

Isn't it ironic when jw's or jw sympathizers trash Catholics on a regular basis then insist the world use the Catholic made up name for God? Renaii, research for you- check out a Catholic monk by the name of Martini, he's the one who made up the word  jehovah around 1270.  Have you thanked your nearest Catholic lately for such a bountiful spiritual banquet? do you call your father by his first name? why are there no records whatsoever that indicate jehovah was ever used by the first century Christians? let me guess, satan is to blame right? and the thousands of manuscripts that did survive have all been tampered with and yes! God would allow His book to be changed just so the wt could test them later? 

And I am grateful to them :) they were the main Christian faith for a long time! having total control over bible access, It's good we as average people have access to the bible now, not something catholic clergy wanted and also did not allow for hundreds of years.

Yes I was aware "Jehovah" was originally from a catholic monk who decided which vowels to use, it's the oldest english version of God's name much the same way Jesus is the oldest English version of Jesus which also is a lot different from it's original prounouciation.

Good topic. It is interesting that God did not think it important enough to reveal his name until the time of Moses.

Two points.

Mankind, in the view of the Supreme Being (according to scripture) is weak, corrupt, imperfect, sinful and deserving of death. This is Jehovah's opinion based on his perfect standards.

Can we agree on that?

If so, let us proceed...

Does it make sense for the Supreme Being to crave the approval of such creatures? Does it make sense to desire honor from such creatures?

Jehovah placed a curse on humanity. He let death dog their footsteps for all of history. He destroyed many millions himself and commanded the destruction of others. This should clearly demonstrate that Jehovah exercises his Soverignty aplenty!

This is my first point: It is illogical for God (by whatever name tag) to see any merit in the use of his name by wretched sinners who cannot manage to control their own lives long enough to escape corrupting his name.

Second point...

The name (tetragrammaton letters) was holy to the Jews for the precise reason the DID NOT UTTER IT! Holy means: set apart. It was not superstition which prevented them from bandying it about like a name brand T-shirt for a favorite rock band. It was the fear of God stemming from the Ten Commandments injunction against PROFANING the name through ill use.

Meaning what? The Jews did the only thing they could logically do to prevent the profanation of god's special name. The did the OPPOSITE of what Jehovah's Witnesses do!! They never publicly uttered the name in connection with any of their weak, sinful, imperfect and corrupt activitities!  The name represented only the holiest of activity.  Even today, Jews will not type the word: god. They prefer g*d. If this isn't respect, it will do until respect comes along.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not HONOR the name (however it is pronounced) because they constantly connect this special BRAND with false prophecy, policies which must be changed and corrected and dubious public and private activities which make Jehovah appear to be a cult leader!

When Pastor Russell connected Jehovah with his false prophecies and Pyramid measurement crackpot schemes DID HE BRING HONOR ON GOD'S NAME? No. He brought ill-repute.

Did Judge Rutherford bring honor and glory to Jehovah's name when he had his house to house publishers spread the word that the ancient men of worthiness (David, Abraham, etc.) would return and live in the Beth Sarim mansion in 1925? No. He brought ridicule. (I made an ass of myself). He also made an ass of Jehovah!.

Did the Watchtower Society bring honor, glory and sanctity to Jehovah's name by sending out the false message that 1975 would usher in the 1,000 year reign of Christ (and, logically: Armageddon)? No. It brought disillusionment, ridicule, shame and confusion.

You see the difference?

The ancient JEWS refused to dishonor Jehovah, by keeping the name away from carnal, ill-considered human folly they showed respect and fear of God's reputation.

What does all this prove?

Jehovah's Witnesses don't even understand why the pronunciation has been lost to humanity in the first place!!

JEHOVAH (or whomever/however) DOES NOT WANT HIS NAME ILL-USED!

If there is only one, true god there really is no logical need to separate that Supreme deity from all other phoney, illusory and wicked concoctions of the human imagination.

Jehovah's Witnesses act like god is a Chinese fellow in a crowd who needs a big yellow polka-dot T-shirt to distinguish him from the rest.

God always allows the wicked enough rope to hang themselves!

Jehovah's Witnesses have had plenty of rope with misusing their Authorization from Jehovah in pronouncing dates from Him which proved embarassingly false!

The JW's speak IN HIS NAME and what they speak doesn't come true....or...has to be modified...changed...altered...reversed or left off the subsequent compilation CD :)

Lord, Lord did we not ....blah blah blah...in your name?

Get away from me you workers of iniquity....I NEVER KNEW YOU!

I gotta jump in here.  It can be  "more correct not to use it if your quoting from a scripture that does use it"
if you are trying to accurately translate what was written.

If every shred of evidence points to the NT writers NOT using "Jehovah" (or a tetragrammaton or some Greek
equivalent) then those who are sure the Bible is God's inspired Word should be sure that God had a reason.
They should not take it upon themselves to "restore" something to the NT because it quotes the OT.

If God had it passed down without his name in it, don't monkey with it.