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Olin Moyles GhostIf the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918?


First, some background: When I first began to have doubts about whether the JW religion was "the Truth," I performed quite a bit of research on the Faithful and Discreet Slave doctrine...in the Society's literature, of course. Like many of us, I had never really examined the doctrine. Well, needless to say (but I'll say it anyway), I found major flaws in the Society's interpretation of the parable of the faithful and discreet slave.

While there are lots of flaws in the doctrine, let me identify one apparent contradiction in the Society's interpretation of this parable. First, three background "facts": 
    1) Jesus appointed the anointed remnant to be the FDS in 33 C.E. (See God's Kingdom of 1,000 Years, p. 342, para. 23)
    2) The FDS continued throughout the centuries after 33 C.E., "[a]pparently one generation of the 'slave' class fed 
       the next succeeding generation thereof."  (God's Kingdom of 1,000 Years, p. 344, para. 29)
    3) Then, during the 1918/1919 time frame, Jesus inspected all those claiming to be Christian and picked the Bible Students.
      (See WT 3/15/1990, p. 14, para. 21)
So, if succeeding generations of the FDS fed each other from 33 C.E. down through the centuries, why did Jesus need to inspect all the other religions? Wouldn't he just inspect the slave that he appointed back in 33 C.E., rather than all these counterfeit, wanna-be faithful and discreet slaves? That seems more in line with the account in Matthew.

Caveat: Personally, I don't believe the FDS is a class. Rather, this is just a parable exhorting Christians to do good to others and stating that if we do good to others, then Jesus will reward us. This parable provides no basis for providing a group of men with the ability to make rules and go beyond what is written (Matt. 15:9, 1 Cor. 4:6). Nonetheless, as someone who is still a JW and has family and friends in the religion, I find some benefit in examining JW doctrine such as this.
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by Olin Moyles Ghost: Correct formatting
Awakened at GileadRe: If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918?

OMG,

The FDS was a big topic that caused me to have doubts also. My issue was how the FDS works.. if the ones who really do the work are the GBs not the anointed in general.

In Gilead, Carey Barber gave a talk called, "The 1900 Year Old Faithful and Discrete Slave Class". I lloked forward to this talk, anticipating that it would clear up my misconceptions. In the end, it left me feeling unsatisified (about as unsatisfied as Onan's sister-in-law-wife), since it all seemed to contrived.

You make a good point as to why the 1918 test had to occur. The WTS parallels it with the parable of the wheat and the weeds.. since the distinctyion would not be clear until the harvest (supposedly since 1914).

So for me the big issue remains 1914. If the end didn't begin in 1914, then the FDS wasn't appointed in 1919, and the rest is a load of BS.

A@G

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Olin Moyles GhostRe: Re: If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in
AAG,

You're right about the way the FDS works. I am still amazed that this self-serving and contrived doctrine, cobbled together from a few misapplied and mismatched scriptures, had me fooled for so long. When you take a step back, it seems pretty clear that the FDS doctrine is a means to an end. That is, it's simply a way to give some kind of scriptural underpinning to the power asserted by a man or group of men (the GB).

I've heard the wheat and weeds tie-in. Again, it's another example of how the Society's self-serving applications of Jesus' parables fall apart when examined closely. So, from the end of the 1st Century down to Russell's time, there were two mutually exclusive conditions: (1) the FDS was providing the right food at the right time, but (2) they were indistinguishable from weed-like false Christians (so indistinguishable that Jesus can't even tell them apart?).

As to 1914, I've had some discussions with my wife about this. She's not unreasonable, but she is definitely more "in" than I am. She concedes that 1914 may not be the right date, but asks "what does that change?" We've discussed the 1919 appointment of the FDS, and how if 1914 was wrong, then the FDS wasn't appointed in 1919. Her reply is that it could have happened some other year. In other words, she's not too hung up on dates. But she realizes the problems with the org., and the false prophecies, etc.

The things that keep her hanging on are: (1) JWs don't go to war; (2) JWs avoid celebrations/traditions with pagan origins; and (3) JWs are doing the preaching work. When I discuss whether you need an organization, #3 is what keeps her hanging on. She says that if the preaching work has to be done, you need an organization to do it, and it doesn't make sense to have lots of fragmented individuals going off teaching a variety of doctrines. Thus, you need some kind of unified organization. My response is that this is a human viewpoint. If Jesus wants to get a work done, he can see that it's done to his satisfaction without needing some American corporation to oversee it--especially an American corporation with a 130-year history of falsely prophesying in his name, etc.

Anyway, it looks like I hijacked my own thread...
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garybussRe: If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918?

You wrote: "Wouldn't he just inspect the slave that he appointed back in 33 C.E., rather than all these counterfeit, wanna-be faithful and discreet slaves?"

Does this mean you don't belive that the seven trumpets of Revelation were the seven Jehovah's Witness District assemblies from 1922 to 1928, starting with Cedar Point, Ohio and ending with Detroit, Michigan?

It's required that all Jehovah's Witnesses believe the trumpet story but it's not required of them that they be able to explain how it could actually be a fact. Hmmmmm, wonder why . . . 

             
              
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AuldSoulRe: If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918?

The part that kills me is they say Jehovah was using C.T. Russell in a special way as early as 1874. So Jesus didn't know who Jehovah was using and didn't know who his brothers were.

About needing an organization to do the preaching: If these did not speak the very stones would cry out. Which visible earthly organization would the stones have to be attached to in order to do the preaching work?

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oompaRe: If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918?
GaryB: Does this mean you don't belive that the seven trumpets of Revelation were the seven Jehovah's Witness District assemblies from 1922 to 1928, starting with Cedar Point, Ohio and ending with Detroit, Michigan?
How specific was this?  Is it in the Climax Book, or back in Babylon bk?  Still taught?..........oompa
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GermanXJWRe: If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918?
It is because in 1918 many Bible Students split from the WTS. So, they had to invent an event that Jesus decided the WTS is the true religion and not the other Bible Students as well.
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Awakened at GileadRe: Re: If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918?
How specific was this?  Is it in the Climax Book, or back in Babylon bk?  Still taught?..........oompa
Man, I can tell you've been a bad little JW and you haven't gone to your BkStudy in a while...
 
But yes, it is still the official teaching of the WTBTS. Them trumpet blasts have all been fulfilled, like:
 
"Millions now living will never die"
 
A@G
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QuandryRe: Re: If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918?

Does this mean you don't belive that the seven trumpets of Revelation were the seven Jehovah's Witness District assemblies from 1922 to 1928, starting with Cedar Point, Ohio and ending with Detroit, Michigan?

It's required that all Jehovah's Witnesses believe the trumpet story but it's not required of them that they be able to explain how it could actually be a fact. Hmmmmm, wonder why . . . 

Once again, Gary, this is hilarious and thought provoking at the same time.

 I always wondered how a few hundred people meeting at an amusement park could cause "blasts" that were affecting the entire world........ I was glad I did not have to explain it to anyone.....would have sounded ludicrous.

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oompaRe: If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918?
How specific was this?  Is it in the Climax Book, or back in Babylon bk?  Still taught?..........oompa
Man, I can tell you've been a bad little JW and you haven't gone to your BkStudy in a while...
 
But yes, it is still the official teaching of the WTBTS. Them trumpet blasts have all been fulfilled, like:
 
"Millions now living will never die"
 
A@G
Ha, I have just about always been a bad jw.......and no I have not been in over a year to CLIMAX , except in bed (I like outdoors).  But what about the Climax BOOK?   BTW, I may get to the next NCY meetup at that Spanish place in June since I have family interest in the area now.....I would so wish for some of my immediate family to come...but very doubtful....I will keep you posted if I can get the guts.........................oompa
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HonestyRe: If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918?
Does this mean you don't belive that the seven trumpets of Revelation were the seven Jehovah's Witness District assemblies from 1922 to 1928, starting with Cedar Point, Ohio and ending with Detroit, Michigan?

It's required that all Jehovah's Witnesses believe the trumpet story but it's not required of them that they be able to explain how it could actually be a fact. Hmmmmm, wonder why . . . 

 

I was sippin' the sauce pretty heavy (became a teetotaler in 2004) when we studied that BS in the Book Study.

 

I was half lit on vodka and coke and it still sounded like somebody was messin' wid my head.

Now I know they were.

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Awakened at GileadRe: Re: If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918?
I will keep you posted if I can get the guts.........................oompa
C'mon oomps.. I saw you were willing to give up one of yer testicles to get yer family out... that's guts... See you in NYC!
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garybussRe: If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918?

 
Peter Gregerson once said on a television program in Vancouver, B.C. that being raised a Jehovah's Witness was like being raised in an insane asylum with retarded parents. (Jim Penton May 14, 1996)

I think it's hilarious that grown men and women put on suits, ties, dresses, and pantyhose, drive across town and go sit in somebody's basement, watch the family dog lick his balls for an hour, and seriously discuss the seven trumpets of Revelation and the Society's ridiculous claim that Rutherford's convention rants were prophesied in the Bible. That's just over the top in my book.

God owns a United States book printing business, Jesus liked Rutherford's cross and crown, and now if this one pony rodeo isn't bad enough, we're getting letters cancelling meetings from the Governing Body! These guys could screw up a one car funeral. 

              
             
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yadda yadda 2Re: If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918?
So, if succeeding generations of the FDS fed each other from 33 C.E. down through the centuries, why did Jesus need to inspect all the other religions? Wouldn't he just inspect the slave that he appointed back in 33 C.E., rather than all these counterfeit, wanna-be faithful and discreet slaves? That seems more in line with the account in Matthew.

Hmmm..not really. The JW's version of Matt 24:45-47 is contradictory and flawed of course, but if you read the passage more carefully you will see there are clearly two appointments. There was an initial appointment to begin feeding the domestics (evidently began in 33CE) and another later appointment "over all his belongings" in verse 47. The second one is more of a reward for the faithful servants for having completed their assigned task of feeding properly (compare with the illustrations of the talents, etc), which occurs with the master's "arriving" in verse 46. The problem is the WTS says the master "arrive"d in 1919 and the second appointment "over all his belongings" thus occured then, in favour of the Watchtower Society. Clearly that is a self-serving false teaching. Jesus has not yet arrived to reward anyone. Rather, the "appointment" over "all his belongings" is probably not fulfilled until the marriage of the lamb occurs, when all spirit-begotten Christians have been resurrected to immortal heavenly life.

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AuldSoulRe: If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918?

yadda_yadda,

If you read carefully-er, you will find that there was no appointment whatsoever. There was a prediction of one possible appointment and two identifications, neither of which were of necessity to occur, but either of which could occur. Each identification was predicated upon a certain set of conditions. Neither of these sets must be met. Therefore, the resulting appointment from one of the identifications is also not required as a fulfillment . . . this wasn't a prophecy, it was counsel.

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yadda yadda 2Re: If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918?
Auldsoul, thanks but I absolutely disagree. That's a desperate argument. Since when did Jesus say anything that he thought might never happen.
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BorgiaRe: If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918
Yadda Yadda 2,

Hostia! that's a desperate argument. Almost as good as the one found about Noah in the 06-01 WT.

Cheers

Borgia
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AuldSoulRe: Re: If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918?

yadda_yadda,

I didn't say he thought it might never happen. He obviously thought it might happen, he just didn't prophesy that it would happen. You framed your post as though this was a prophecy that had to be fulfilled, and that isn't how we communicate about things that only might happen. Not in English, anyway.

Jesus did not speak of two appointments, as you claimed, he spoke of one appointment that might happen, but only if a certain set of conditions was met and a certain judicious identification could be made. He also spoke of another eventuality that might happen, but only if a different set of conditions was met. Do you disagree with that? If so, why?

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stillajwexelderRe: If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918?
great questions
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watsonRe: Re: Re: If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918?

 I always wondered how a few hundred people meeting at an amusement park could cause "blasts" that were affecting the entire world........ I was glad I did not have to explain it to anyone.....would have sounded ludicrous.

I think it was those deep fried buritos, and Shasta Colas.....

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