Welcome, Dave.

Alex

Welcome David...

I too am sorry you were treated this way...   Enjoy your Freedom 

Cas

Welcome to JWD.  I know exactly how you feel.  I'd tell the story but it would takes pages.  Let's just say I threw the baby out with the bath water due to shunning.  It took me a while but, I found the baby again.

Welcome.

BFD

They don't want you back. I'm experiencing that right now, I've been asking a former friend who is shunning me (emails/text messages without a peep of reply) to set me up with a study with the most experienced/knowledgable elder or whatever so I can balance my current thoughts about what's wrong with the doctrine/organization with "the official" explanation of what's right with it and why I should come back (ie a Bible Study like you would on the way to dunkland).

I'm not even able to get a response on whether she will do that for me. She's a pioneer, i want a study, won't respond, because she "knows, I'm tainted" (not her words, my interpretation). Once you "know the truth" they really don't want you complicating their lives. This whole idea of me coming into the organization like a bull in a china shop asking too many questions for purposes of "figuring out why I'm wrong in my worldly views" is a scary (and probably embarassing) thing. You need to come in meekly with the demonstrated intent to "believe what they tell you" or they don't want you anywhere near them. I believe they consciously know their "faith" cannot withstand questions, so they protect it.

I'm thinking I'm going to go seeking a study. I'm open to the idea that there are at least some halfway reasonable rationalizations available from the really experienced JW's. Afterall most of my "study" of the organization has been from "apostate" sources (I never did anything but go to meetings as a kid). I really should get "the other side". The problem is that so far as I can tell, not even the average pioneer HAS "the other side". They don't have the "apostate" view, so I'm having a hard time thinking that the "average" pioneer/study type person would even be able to defend themselves. I certainly wouldn't waste my time unless I got ahold of some who knows their shit.

My main interest is getting the story on "HOW" the organization knows its got things right? For instance from my evil apostate influence I know that Charles Russel was a nut job who through a combination of Biblical numerology (kinda crazy, isn't numerology supposed to be occult?) and the dimensions of the Great Pyramid at Giza (everyone agrees this is nuts even witnesses) determined that 1914 was the year the world was going to end, which was revised to 1914 is when Jesus kicked off the Armageddon party we're currently awaiting any day now. Even witnesses have distanced the organization from Russel's teachings about the Pyramid, understandably. THE PROBLEM here people is Mr. Crazypants Russell is THE GUY who figured out WE ARE IN THE TIME OF THE END like right now, as opposed to at some totally unknown time when the kingdom will come (which most Christians "believe"). The DIFFERENCE between Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine and some other Christian organization IS THIS. THIS idea that we've discovered that NOW is "THE TIME OF THE END". So, how was that determined?

So if everyone agrees that Charles Russel was a nutjob, what is the "other basis" to believe 1914 is important and this whole deal is going down right now? What calibrates the timing that right now is "the time of the end"? Human beings made these decisions, how did they make them? What is the biblical basis?

Hell now that I'm typing, I'd really like to go back and get the "full scoop" on why they believe everything they believe. A JW of 17.5 years really ought to have that info, and I don't actually remember much of anything for "reasons" just "how it is". I was led to believe there are fully documented reasons complete with bible scriptures and junk.

The year 1914, which is the year that the Gentile Times (aka Appointed Times of the Nations) ended, was determined though a study of the Bible along with no doubt some holy spirit given to the brothers that were able to discern this information.

There are quite a few scriptures involved in coming to the year 1914, one of them from Ezekiel about "Lifting off the crown and it will be no one's until he who has the legal right comes". So that is the starting point, which was 607 BC, when Jerusalem fell to Babylon. Then another significant scripture is from Daniel chapter 4 which showed the appointed times of the nations would be "seven times". Then to figure out what the seven times means we need to go to Revelation chapter 12 which notes that 1,260 days are 3-1/2 times. Making the 7 times equal to 2520 days. So doing the math, 607 BC plus 2,520 days comes to the year 1914.

Studying the Bible is one of my most satisfying endeavors.  It never gets boring for me.

DavidR -- I whole-heartedly agree. The practice of shunning just means I don't have to keep hearing about the "truth" or hear pleas to come back to it.

Welcome to the board.

Rev1212 - Quit hijacking this thread.

Well said David, I second that! 

Welcome to the board!

MMO