I'm sure this has been touched on before, but I just thought about it tonight. I was thinking about the appointment of Ministerial Servants (Deacons) and Elders (Bishops) in the Kingdom Hall. The Watchtower Society runs down the list of requirements in Acts, that they must be good examples, pure, etc. They apply all of these requirements, except one: marriage. Single elders are quite rare, and I'm not sure if it's even possible to have a single elder nowadays, but you see unmarried ministerial servants all the time. In fact, for a lot of witness females, it's a pre-requisite for marriage. Has anyone ever asked their elders about this? How does the borg justify this blatant violation of scripture?
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| B_Deserter | Single Ministerial Servants and Elders... | |
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| metaspy | Re: Single Ministerial Servants and Elders... | |
In the 3 congregations I was in over the course of being in the Borg. each of them had at least 1, sometimes 2 single elders. Perhaps it is just in your experience, or maybe I am the one who has the odd experience. | ||
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| Bring_the_Light | Re: Single Ministerial Servants and Elders... | |
Which scriptures in Acts? (yeah I didn't do my homework like a good boy) | ||
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| B_Deserter | Re: Single Ministerial Servants and Elders... | |
"This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil." (1 Timothy 3:1-7)
"Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless. Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus." (1 Timothy 3:8-13) It's not Acts, sorry, but same principle applies here. All those qualifications apply for ministerial servants and elders, except "husband of one wife." | ||
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| David_R | Re: Single Ministerial Servants and Elders... | |
Hello Well, I believe you are asking why there are single elders, MS in light of these verses about 'being husband to one wife'. If I am wrong about your question let me know. The Society interprets these scriptures as meaning 'not more than one wife'. The do not believe you need to be married but, if you are, then you can only have one wife.
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| daniel-p | Re: Single Ministerial Servants and Elders... | |
I ran across some commentary about this a while back and they interpret it as differntiating between polygamy and monogamy, since polygamy was more common in those days. | ||
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| VoidEater | Re: Single Ministerial Servants and Elders... | |
The scripture is read as "husband of [no more than] one wife". | ||
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| Bring_the_Light | Re: Single Ministerial Servants and Elders... | |
"This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil." (1 Timothy 3:1-7) "Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless. Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus." (1 Timothy 3:8-13) It's not Acts, sorry, but same principle applies here. All those qualifications apply for ministerial servants and elders, except "husband of one wife." I'm now in the odd circumstance of thinking JW's aren't wrong on this point, while simultaneously wondering why Catholics only give gay men (no offense to gays intended, honestly) and child molesters the job? The bible "seems" pretty clear that the leaders of the church can partake in wholesome vaginal-type nookie when they're off the clock, hmm? If I was a Catholic Priest, I think these scriptures would "stumble me" a bit. What do you MEAN, I must be celibate? But, But, BUt argh  | ||
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by Bring_the_Light:
Correct formatting | |
| IP_SEC | Re: Single Ministerial Servants and Elders... | |
By definition scripture is open to flexible interpretation. | ||
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| Bring_the_Light | Re: Single Ministerial Servants and Elders... | |
By definition scripture is open to flexible interpretation. "Let my people cum (in something more appropriate than young boys)" - Said Moses to the Pope if he was around today | ||
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| chickpea | Re: Single Ministerial Servants and Elders... | |
the kh i attended had an widowed, childless PO and another elder who was well into his 40s and single.... he had been at bethel for nearly 2 decades and had to come back to the area to help take care of his aging and ill parents..... i HATED having to listen to his advice on marriage | ||
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| Dark Knight | Re: Single Ministerial Servants and Elders... | |
I always saw this scripture as a validation for polygamy.
Think about it. If the writer had to make a point that the elders should only have one wife. It meant that there must have been Christian husbands around with more than one wife and they would have been accepted members of the Christian community, although not ideal candidates for the role congregation elders. Now I'm not a supporter of polygamy but I felt it was wrong of the watchtower to break up polygamous families of newly recruited members in countries where polygamy is accepted. There is no scriptural justification (that I know of) for it. DK | ||
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| WTWizard | Re: Single Ministerial Servants and Elders... | |
I wonder if that's why so many obstacles against marriage and courtship. They want people to remain single so they can be single hounders and single assistant hounders. At which point, they are hounded to join the Ministerial, or Value Destroyer, Training School. After which a billion assignments await them (it used to be that they would sit and wait for something, but these days the whole Washtowel Slaveholdery is in shambles). Ultimately, they want to use these people to set off the Second Dark Ages. Which is why I positively dread getting pulled back in physically (it's worse than getting disfellowshipped). I want no part of the organization that ruined my chances, what little they were, of getting in with the opposite sex. Let alone to help them seize the whole world and start a Second Dark Ages. | ||
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| Jim_TX | Re: Single Ministerial Servants and Elders... | |
I'm not sure if this thread is saying that the JWs allow fellas who are single to be Ministerial Servants or not, but I can relate something tha I know of - from years ago. Back in the 60's - there was a fella who had been married once before - and divorced. I don't know many details of that, but he was a nice fella. He had a 'friend' who was a gal - who also was a pioneer. Now... these two were not youngsters. He was in his mid 40's, and she was probably mid to late 20's. (As a kiddo, I was not too good at estimating ages.) Anyway... the local gestapo pretty much told this fella that if he wanted to move up to the next rung in the organization - he would have to get married to this gal. Otherwise, he couldn't be a 'servant' - or whatever they were called back then. So he got married to her. They were not married for very long when he was told that in order to be a servant - he needed to have children (scriptural - ya know). So... reluctantly, they had kids. I think that he was way up in years when his oldest was a teenager. Anyway... they promoted him - and he was able to be one of the 'three' that ran the congregation. I just can't figure out why they go this route - and then also preach from the platform that fellas should strive to be like the fella (Timothy?) in the New Testament who remained single. It gets kinda confusing to a youngster. Unless Timothy had no responsibilities in the 'congregation' of old. Regards, Jim TX | ||
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| wha happened? | Re: Single Ministerial Servants and Elders... | |
I never thought about the polygamy thing in countries where it's legal. In those countries they should be allowed to continue the relationships but not serve according to scripture | ||
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| David_Rupp | Re: Single Ministerial Servants and Elders... | |
" always saw this scripture as a validation for polygamy. Hello all. Well, you may not be aware, but there was no scriptural command in the 'old testament' or 'hebrew scriptures' that a man had to have only one wife. Polygamy was common in Arab lands and still is. A number of prominent, 'loyal' friends of God in the Old Testament had more than one wife / lover / child bearer. So, the early Christians felt it necessary to clarify this was a no-go. | ||
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by David_Rupp:
Correct formatting | |
| BurnTheShips | Re: Single Ministerial Servants and Elders... | |
I don't think the text forbids singlehood for Elders and Ministerial Servants, B_D. It means if they are married, that it be to one woman only. Paul extolled singlehood. For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I. 1 Cor 7:7-8 | ||
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by BurnTheShips:
Correct formatting | |
| SnakesInTheTower | Re: Single Ministerial Servants and Elders... | |
bd: I'm not sure if it's even possible to have a single elder nowadays I was a single elder until the end of 2006 when the BOE removed me (I didnt play nicely in their sandbox) .... it sucked to be in my 40's and still be single as a dub...maybe pathetic is the better term.. ...the other elders were always trying to offload one of the mentally unstable (pscyho) sisters off on me... but if I expressed interest in one of the non-pscyho sisters, they would run interference... FU$K$ng bastards... they ain't runnin' my life no mo' Snakes ( | ||
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)| Tired of the Hypocrisy | Re: Single Ministerial Servants and Elders... | |
I knew a twenty something single elder once. I also knew of some Cuban Boat-People that had a bunch of 16 year old kids that were elders in Cuba. | ||
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