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LantanaIf a JW girl falls pregnant to a 'worldly person'...before marriage??


Hi everyone, this is my first post.

I've had many encounters with JW's throughout the years and I've found them to be decent, caring people.  I've attending meetings, read a number of Awake! and Watchtower publications and so on and so forth.
The book 'Crisis of Conscious' by Ray Franz was really eye-opening for me and served as a strong warning for those about to enter the organisation...its easy to fill in the blanks from there -- I never became a JW.  10 years on, I'm not positive where I'm at spritually.  I'm just relieved my family was not involved.  Being as I was, young and naive, desperate for life's answers, I took notice of anyone preaching truth...and well, I'm sure this story has been told thousands of times.

To my question:  If a JW girl falls pregnant (say aged 16) to a worldly person before marriage, whats the process in place for her set by the Governing Body?  I hail from Australia, so the legal age here is 16.  
Any responses are appreciated,


Cheers,
Jim


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nomoreguiltRe: If a JW girl falls pregnant to a 'worldly person'...before marriage??

No doubt she'll be Disfellowshipped. Probably be extremely discouraged from marrying the worldy boy, or encouraged for him to become a dub. Unless she has a supportive family, she'll have a life of hell. If she is repentant after the baby is born, she'll probably be re-instated into the cogregation, if that's waht she wants.

I have seen this scenatio re-inacted many times in the over 40 years that I was a jw.

NMG

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nomoreguiltRe: If a JW girl falls pregnant to a 'worldly person'...before marriage??

Lantana.... Welcome to JWD.

 

NMG

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scotsmanRe: If a JW girl falls pregnant to a 'worldly person'...before marriage??
She'll have to be baptised to be disfellowshipped.  I take it she is....
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greendawnRe: If a JW girl falls pregnant to a 'worldly person'...before marriage??
Welcome and how fortunate you were in having the sense not to get too deeply involved with the JWs and become lost in a maze of strange doctrines and never ending deceit.

A JW girl of any age that becomes pregnant without being married will be in serious trouble with the JWs and will almost certainly be expelled. Given that pregnancy out of marriage means fornication (not likely to be due to artificial insemination) which is a serious disfellowshipping offense and any show of repentance is unlikely to be heeded.
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Mr. MajesticRe: If a JW girl falls pregnant to a 'worldly person'...before marriage??

Oh dear…., Jim..!! What have you been up to….

If it was something like a one night stand then she may not get D’fd. There was a case like that in the hall that I used to go to. She did go onto marry the person she got involved with and they are still together. He never became a JW but she was a talking point for a long time, severely frowned upon. But if it was an ongoing thing, and she got in the club that way then she would be put out for sure.

But if she is 16 then she might not be baptised, and therefore would not come under those rules as such, although it might damage the fathers position, if he is in any standing.

Big hello to you BTW. You did well not to become a JW. Well done.

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LantanaRe: If a JW girl falls pregnant to a 'worldly person'...before marriage??

interesting insights all, and thanks for the warm welcome :)

I take it being baptized determines whether you are ousted or not. Amazing, just amazing. I've been out of touch with the Witness camp for 2 years now and I started the wonder recently what would happen in this case. It's a delicate issue, not for me personally, but rather the people who must adhere to a certain set of rules. I couldn't do it.

By the way, is the minimum age to get baptized still 12 years old? I'm not sure if it was 12 or 13... so long ago.
Back to my example, suppose this girl of 16 was Baptized, told her parents she was pregnant and was disfellowshipped by the organisation. Are there examples of parents overriding the organisation, or is it simply get disfellowshipped -- have the baby -- then get reinstated if repentant?  If the parents wish to control it instead and rail against the rules, are they given the boot too?

It seems there's a question inside a question here.

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dinahRe: Re: If a JW girl falls pregnant to a 'worldly person'...before marriage??

Lantana,

There is no set age when a child can be baptised.  I've seen it happen when a kid was 10 years old.

In my old congregation, there was an 18 year old girl who got pregnant.  She was just reproved, but I think she had to promise not to see the guy anymore.  I figure they would rather reprove a pregnant girl in hopes of retaining her child.   ***shudder***

 

 

 

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Nathan NatasRe: If a JW girl falls pregnant to a 'worldly person'...before marriage??

Lantana asked,

I take it being baptized determines whether you are ousted or not. Amazing, just amazing...

By the way, is the minimum age to get baptized still 12 years old? I'm not sure if it was 12 or 13... so long ago.

If a person isn't baptised as a JW, they are not a member, and if they are not a member, there isn't anything to kick them out of.

As for baptism, we know the WTB&TS condemns infant baptism, but they've never stated a minimum age that I am aware of (20+ years in). I have heard rumors of 8 year olds being baptised.

Edited to add:  Rumor confirmed! 1971 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses:

Also, within four months she conducted a study of her own with her very keen eight-year-old son. Now, we are happy to relate, just seven months after being contacted, the woman is a sister, having been baptized at the international assembly last November, and one of her companions at that baptism was her new "brother," the youth who commenced the study with her!


 

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Nathan NatasRe: Re: If a JW girl falls pregnant to a 'worldly person'...before marriage??

and nine:

During the first year, our seven-year-old son became a publisher, and at nine he was baptized. - The WATCHTOWER, March 15, 1975

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Nathan NatasRe: Re: Re: If a JW girl falls pregnant to a 'worldly person'...before marriage??

and seven:

Among all those baptized the youngest was a seven-year-old boy, the oldest an eighty-seven-year-old woman. A one-legged man was baptized. The sun shone genially as the mass baptism carried on into the noon hour. - The WATCHTOWER, March 1, 1956

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95stormfrontRe: If a JW girl falls pregnant to a 'worldly person'...before marriage??
There's one other scenario not touched upon. If the girl is not baptised, and her father holds any responsibilities in the congregation, there's nothing that the organization can do to her, but her father will likely quietly kick her to the curb to save himself the embarassment of having to explain to the elder body why he's not lording over his house in a fine manner. I've seen that done many a time. One girl was I know was bought a plane ticket to distant family North without even a coat to keep her warm.
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blondieRe: If a JW girl falls pregnant to a 'worldly person'...before marriage??
A few years ago a six-year old girl was baptized in the Chicago area at a convention.

***
w968/1p.21KeepingEyesandHeartFixedonthePrize***

In 1934, Mom and Dad were baptized. I too wanted to get baptized, and I kept insisting until Mother asked an older Witness to talk with me about it. He asked many questions in a manner that I could understand. Then he told my parents that I should not be prevented from being baptized; it might harm my spiritual growth. So I was baptized the following summer, when I was still six.

 

 

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Nathan NatasRe: Re: Re: Re: If a JW girl falls pregnant to a 'worldly person'...before marriage??

but probably not a four- or five-year-old:

Should parents of retarded children feel that baptism is in all cases a requirement for children to be viewed by God as worthy of his protection in times of judgment, as in the foretold "great tribulation"? The degree of retardation is clearly a determining factor, since some of such children remain with the mentality of a four- or five-year-old even when fully grown. The child may be able to grasp certain basic teachings of God’s Word and repeat these when asked. He (or she) may be obedient to the parents and abstain from doing certain things that have been pointed out as wrong and contrary to God’s will. But is the child able to make personal decisions, able to decide from his own mind and heart (not that of the parents) the course in life he wishes to take? Is he capable of comprehending and seeking a personal relationship with God, one that is not dependent upon his parents? Is he able to stand before a judicial body, accountable for any wrongdoing he may commit? If not, then such child is evidently not in position to be baptized but would continue under family merit in God‘s eyes, counted by him as "holy" in that sense. - The Watchtower, September 15, 1976

How heart-warming to know that a seven year old is able to stand before a judicial committee!

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Nathan NatasRe: If a JW girl falls pregnant to a 'worldly person'...before marriage??

Will we someday read,

"Two-year-old Lisa explains how she came to appreciate the value of purposeful study and meditation: “After my baptism in 1994, I was quite active in the truth for about two years. I attended all the Christian meetings, devoted from 30 to 40 hours per month to the field ministry, and associated with fellow Christians. Then I started to drift away, distracted by Sponge Bob Squarepants." - the Watchtower, sometime, somewhere

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ex-nj-jwRe: Re: Re: Re: Re: If a JW girl falls pregnant to a 'worldly person'...before marriage??

I was 17 when I got pregnant and I was baptized at age 13.  They were going to df me until my dad took me outside and threatend me that if I didn't show some respect and repentance and they df'd me he would through me out of the house.  That was always his weapon, I'll kick you out of this house if you don't.........

So I went back in cried alot, said I'm sorry I'll do whatever you want me to (including promising to never see the baby's father again).  They reprooved me and I guess I'm still on reproof 25 years later cause I left when I turned 18.  Can you be on reproof for 25 years

My dad had to step down as an elder and mom stopped pioneering.

nj

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scotsmanRe: If a JW girl falls pregnant to a 'worldly person'...before marriage??
Back to my example, suppose this girl of 16 was Baptized, told her parents she was pregnant and was disfellowshipped by the organisation. Are there examples of parents overriding the organisation, or is it simply get disfellowshipped -- have the baby -- then get reinstated if repentant? If the parents wish to control it instead and rail against the rules, are they given the boot too?
It's highly unlikely the parents will have a say.  If she's baptized she stands as an individual before the judicial committee and if her parents kicked up a fuss there'd be repercussions for them.  Even if she is disfellowshipped it is within the realms of possibility that the parents will continue to house and care for their daughter and grandchild, although being kicked out the house is also a possibility if the parents are hardliners.  In my experience, grandchildren permit JWs to be more lenient in shunning, although not always.
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WTWizardRe: If a JW girl falls pregnant to a 'worldly person'...before marriage??

If a witless becomes pregnant (and is not married), that generally amounts to fornication.  There may be exceptions, such as if someone is raped while incapacitated and the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger has a current stand that it is not currently the victim's fault at the time of the incident).

To them, fornication appears to be the most serious sin one could commit (second, of course, to apostasy).  I judge that from the amount of time and energy they devote to preventing people from having access to any opportunities to do it.  If you are baptized, you will face a judicial committee and, if they decide you are not repentant, you will get disfellowshipped.  If you are not baptized, it will hold you back from baptism.  If you are an unbaptized publisher, you will lose that "privilege".

It really doesn't matter whether it is with a worldly person or another witless (though if another witless, there will be two people hauled up to the back room instead of just one).  Marrying the person you did fornication with generally will not stop them from disfellowshipping you, and that is doubly so with a worldly person.  You will be ordered to stop seeing each other (if you are both witlesses) to show "repentance".  If it's a worldly person, you will have to give up all contact except getting them into the cancer to prove repentance.

To me, the whole business is hogwash.  The only thing I can see about fornication is that, if you have a baby, it's your responsibility for the next 18 years (and in some countries, it's 21).  And there is the risk of catching a disease (though that can be offset by reduced risk of other diseases if the sex stimulates your immune system).  Other than that, they are really creating major problems where no problem should exist.

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ninjaRe: If a JW girl falls pregnant to a 'worldly person'...before marriage??
this happened to my sis-in-law....she wasn't disfellowshipped ...rather she was marked....she was also encouraged not to marry the guy....she did marry him.....no witnesses went to the wedding except close family....she is now gung ho for Jehovah again....and her marriage is a living hell.......ninja
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chikikieRe: If a JW girl falls pregnant to a 'worldly person'...before marriage??

I fell pregnant at 18 and was not baptised, I had a JC and was not allowed to do any field ministry for about 8 months, after that I faithfully atttended all meetings and bible study, they allowed me to get baptised when baby was 11months old. I had my cards marked and never had any close friends, i was not invited to anything and was shown no loving kindness. I was ENCOURAGED to marry the father who was not a JW so dont know why that was.

anyway I left when my little one was nearly five, when the two congos that shared the hall, a pioneer sister organised a picnic, and everyone was invited apart from me and my little girl, I was aux pioneer at the time, their reason for not inviting me........ my little girl was not a good assoiciate......... i left the witnesses two months later, still being an aux pioneer when i left.

 

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