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| jefferywhat | Will the GB get rid of the WBTS? | |
This is an out there discussion, and probably running a little ahead of the organisation but.....
Ever since Rutherford took charge, the organisation has over shadowed the actual "hands on" worship, i.e. in one year alone, it was pointed out on this forum, if a witness read all of the literature and the bible as prescribed, it would be like 120 pages of the bible and over 3000 pages of watchtower printed material. That seems crazy to me.
Anyway, when we look at the various power struggles between the GB(FDS) and The WBTS over the last century, is it possible that the FDS will cease to use the WBTS as its legal tool and replace it? Simply saying new light has come forth and we no longer will be trading under that name.
Will, your brothers, The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, replace your brothers the WBTS?
Crazy you might say, but the thing that makes me think this is 2 things primarily.
1. The possibility that the WBTS could be bankrupted by pedophile claims and other lawsuits based on DFing and Blood transfusions.
2. The fact that the GB has resigned from the WBTS is a major major change and one born from fear of legal attack.
The reality is we are now under financial attack and have been in europe for at least 10 years, thats why anything that made a profit has gone, food at conventions, paying for literature, moving the French branch to England.
In reality, the WBTS of France no longer operates, its now just a service department, if this was to happen globally, what would the result be? No WBTS.
The GB know this, the change in title of DF'ing to no longer a witness is a classic move to decentralize this decision making process, " its up to the local elders".
Could the changes made to the organizational set up in the 70's come to full maturity?
Mark my words.( but feel free to criticize them)
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| candidlynuts | Re: Will the GB get rid of the WBTS? | |
is it possible that the FDS will cease to use the WBTS as its legal tool and replace it? the FDS is unorganized and have no power or say in what goes on at the watchtower society. the governing body is mostly old men who no longer function in any capacity. the few governing body members who are young enough to function are also young enough not to have any power. who has the power? who runs the watchtower? ted jacarz? his posse? lawyers and financiers ?. | ||
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| TopHat | Re: Will the GB get rid of the WBTS? | |
Nice setup old Ted has there! | ||
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| JeffT | Re: Will the GB get rid of the WBTS? | |
OK, if the somebody steals this idea an announces it anytime after 17:40 PST 26 November 2007 I'm going to show up at the meeting and take credit for it. The one thing that might really get their butts out of a sling would be to declare that a meeting of all 8000 members of the F&DS slave needs to take place, either with all present, tele-conferencing in, or certifying a proxy. The purpose would be to actually put the F&DS in charge of all God's belongings. The WTBS can be what it is: a publishing company which can print what it wants, which may include (but not limited to)items written by the anointed, comments from Blondie, questions from Minimus, recipes from your aunt Sally whatever. The F&DS would appoint a new GB to run day to day affairs, just like a board of directors but they'd be responsible to the somebody, ie the other 8000 (at minimum). This would inable them to deal with new light/old light, pedophiles, taxes and lawsuits etc from an arm's length position. It would give them a logical reason to completely clean house and start over. How's that for big ideas? | ||
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| jefferywhat | Re: Will the GB get rid of the WBTS? | |
Exactly!!
Good old ted jacarz is in charge of the service committee, but I know for a FACT that he is holding back alot of organizational changes. The new boys have bite, and we cant forget the past when looking to the future. Rutherford wrestled power when he had no legal right and against a majority vote. Franz and Knorr had to give up power despite being the president and vise president and against their wishes to the FDS.(GB) For years the WBTS letters or secret meetings or CO talks have gone against the basic teachings of the Scriptures and the Watchtower articles, and we know this sends the Writing Dept. red hot mad. I dont want to get to carried away, but I do think the FDS(GB) will rise up and retire the WBTS of its authority. | ||
| IP: ycmH3XSuCAt0YzEB | ||
| neverendingjourney | Re: Re: Will the GB get rid of the WBTS? | |
I dont want to get to carried away, but I do think the FDS(GB) will rise up and retire the WBTS of its authority. I'm trying to follow what you're saying, but I don't understand your designations. Here's what I understand them to be. Please tell me if you understand something different. FDS - Faithful and Discreet Slave. The remnant of the anointed here on Earth today. WTBTS - The Watchtower and Bible Tract Society. The main legal corporation that the Jehovah's Witnesses use to publish and distribute their literature as well as organize their religious activity. GB - Governing Body. Currently nine men in New York who oversee the Jehovah's Witness religious organization. This is the highest level in the Jehovah's Witness hierarchy. They, as a committee, have final say on organizational and doctrinal matters. I disagree with your prediction if you mean that the FDS, all of those that profess to be anointed and partake of the emblems, will rise up and take power away from the governing body. The partakers have no authority in the Jehovah's Witness hierarchy. They've been marginalized. If they spoke out against the governing body, they would be disfellowshipped. The society doesn't recognize their authroity over anything. That much was made clear in a recent QFR which said they don't have any more insight than your regular publisher. Also, they don't have any legal control over anything. They don't sit on the boards or committees of any of the legal corporations that the JWs use. Am I misunderstanding you? If there is to be a coup in Bethel, it'll be be higher ups (but not necessarily partakers) in the religious organization that wrestle control away from the GB, people in position of control over their legal corporations and who are able to amass a following of other Bethelites to support them. | ||
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| OnTheWayOut | Re: Re: Will the GB get rid of the WBTS? | |
The worldwide printeries have some really nice machines. As long as they aren't losing money, I do see the machines getting old over the next decade or two. I see the production of materials Much could change at any time. Environmentalists could see how much WT garbage winds up in Perhaps WT will switch everything to downloads for the congregation elders, so that all printing I actually think that the presses will stop churning out garbage slowly but surely and cease within | ||
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| jefferywhat | Re: Will the GB get rid of the WBTS? | |
Sorry neverendingjourney, I should clarify what I mean.
When I refer to FDS, I mean the GB( boys in NYC). As we all know, the FDS are the proverbial toothless tiger, the unknown, the silent witness. So I refer to the GB as the FDS tongue in cheek. | ||
| IP: ycmH3XSuCAt0YzEB | ||
| neverendingjourney | Re: Re: Will the GB get rid of the WBTS? | |
So you think that the governing body will do away with their legal corporations? I guess it's possible. But I think it's unlikely. Let's face it. The governing body derives its power from their assets. They are able to publish their literature and maintain a support system which ensures that the local congregations are being run by the book because of their money. The circuit overseers, branch overseer, district overseers and so on, keep an eye on the congregations and report back to the governing body. The legal corporations have to be in place in order for them to receive, control, and administer the religion's assets. The corporations receive non-profit status to ensure that the donations they receive and the real properties they control aren't taxed. If the governing body got rid of their corporations, it would leave the Jehovah's Witnesses in the dark. Who would publish the literature? How would the GB get out letters to the congregations instructing them how to run things? How would the circuit overseers who keep an eye on the local congregations be supported? It would be as if they were living under prohibition in a totalitarian state. | ||
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| zack | Re: Will the GB get rid of the WBTS? | |
What changes is Ted holding back? | ||
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| jefferywhat | Re: Will the GB get rid of the WBTS? | |
If I knew that I would be on the GB!!
I have a very good friend currently in the writing Dept. They all have alot of respect for TJ but realize he is resisting changes. All of the changes last year, meeting times, 1935 and the generation he apparently was not thrilled about. I know there are some more, including different media platforms,no details, but they are being rolled out slowly, and TJ is the speed hump. A complete side point, was anyone in Bethel when the GB released a special address to the Bethel Family around 96? | ||
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| White Dove | Re: Will the GB get rid of the WBTS? | |||
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| White Dove | Re: Will the GB get rid of the WBTS? | |||
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| GermanXJW | Re: Will the GB get rid of the WBTS? | |
The WTS will be continue to be used as is IBSA. If they would cease those organizations the Russellite Bible Students would take over the names. | ||
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| TheOldHippie | Re: Will the GB get rid of the WBTS? | |
The annual meetings - have they been done away with? You know, all members of the WT&TS, there were some hundreds of them, used to gather annually for a financial report and then they would elect or re-elect the Directors. This was advertised in the WT. Was this arrangement done away with when the GB stepped down as Directors? | ||
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| drew sagan | Re: Will the GB get rid of the WBTS? | |
Anyway, when we look at the various power struggles between the GB(FDS) and The WBTS over the last century, is it possible that the FDS will cease to use the WBTS as its legal tool and replace it?
The entire concept of a FDS is totally without basis, it is an illusion.
Each of the various "power struggles" that have taken place inside the WTS are done and over with. In the 1910's there where various members fighting for control of the Watchtower and Rutherford won, plain and simple. Eventually there was a struggle between the Societies President and the Governing Body. This naturally was going to happen being that the previous presidents where quite powerful but Knorr created an atmosphere where the role of the President was diminished. Franz didn't like the effects of this and tried to stop it, but he couldn't do it. Eventually the Governing Body gained full control. And this is where it will stay, the GB has full control and there really is no way it can be taken from them. The End. | ||
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| jefferywhat | Re: Re: Will the GB get rid of the WBTS? | |
The end! Ha!
We dont know how it wil end! But we know that the WBTS has just paid out nearly a million bucks to one of 9 abuse victims, even if we keep it conservative and assume they all got that amount, its still around 8 million, and thats just the start, france is chasing them for hundreds of millions. It could happen in every country! Im not suggesting that the individuals will be changed, just the all powerful name of the WBTS, it is the legal avenue that the GB use, it is entirely plausible and possible for them to cease trading under that name. It would be interesting to find out who owns the printing presses and so on outside of New York City, it wouldn't surprise me to find out they are not under the name of WBTS. Im looking at it from a business prospective, in 2000 they formed: Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, New York. Incorporated Religious Order of Jehovah's Witnesses, New York. Incorporated Kingdom Support Services, Incorporated, New York. Incorporated And the Presidency was changed to non GB members, the GB look after the ones above, the WBTS is already being pushed aside, its not the end of the world Im proposing here, just another shift in org structure. And I bet it has a lot to do with the money! | ||
| IP: ycmH3XSuCAt0YzEB | ||
| neverendingjourney | Re: Will the GB get rid of the WBTS? | |
It's not a radical idea to suggest that the governing body will look to protect their financial assets as much as possible. In fact, that's what they should do and it's what they have been doing. Rather than doing away with the WTBTS as their primary legal corporation, what I see in the future is further diversification. I think they will sell off more and more high-price Brooklyn real estate and use the proceeds from those sales to build newer properties oversees so as to protect those assets from coming under the jurisdiction of the U.S. courts. If they spread their assets out throughout the world, it will help protect them in the event of a huge wave of lawsuits in the U.S., or any other country, for that matter. I see them trying to divy up their assets as much as possible between several corporations in an attempt to shield at least part of those assets from lawsuits. I think they will enact policies to further distance themselves from what the local elders do. They will try to shift as much of the legal liability as possible on the local body of elders and the local congregations. I don't think they have to necessarily do away with the WTBTS as a legal corporation in order to protect their finances. | ||
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| garybuss | Re: Will the GB get rid of the WBTS? | |
Just for fun, analyze from a business spreadsheet perspective what would happen if the Watch Tower Corporation got rid of Jehovah's Witnesses. :-) | ||
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| OnTheWayOut | Will the GB get rid of the WBTS? | |
Instead of Gary's suggestion, I was thinking that maybe the WBTS would get rid of the GB. They are an expense, they think they control things, they just get in the way. | ||
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OOOps! Yeah, the FDS doesn't use the WTS but the GB does. Hmmm...house of cards will come down, still.