by gilwarrior 58 Replies latest watchtower scandals
OK we know that the WTS was, until recently, associated with the UN even through the WTS clearly condemns it. Of course the reason they gave for associating with the UN is lame.
My question is this: What do you think is the real reason that the WTS decided associate themselves with the UN?
I don't think that anyone has ever answered that question.
Excellent point.
Mad Apostate, Barb Anderson, waiting and others have suggested (and there is a lot of proof out there provided by people like Mad Apostate) that they used it for political influence etc.
Others such as Alan F., Maximus etc. have suggested that the boys were just above the "frey" and decided to go to the UN library and they didn't care about the consequences. This would look bad seeing they would let people rot in Greek jails and die in Malawi all the while that when they needed to go to the UN library they just threw it all away.
. http://www.geocities.com/plowbitch69/
hawk
Until forum members are shown clear evidence that the Watchtower benefited politically by having been affiliated with the Department of Public Information, they should not discount the reason for affiliation given by the Watchtower. The Watchtower says that they asked for the affiliation because it gave them access to the United Nations' library.
How likely is this?
Well, given that one of the Watchtower's more important missions on earth is showing that world governments and world institutions cannot affect solutions to world problems, demonstrating that the United Nations is failing to find lasting solutions to these problems is a priority for the Watchtower. To respond to this priority, the Watchtower naturally would wish to have access to the best information available about government-sponsored programs worldwide--failing ones, they hope, and the single greatest repository of this information in the world is the United Nations’ Dag Hammerskold Library in New York City, the biggest and the best of all of the UN’s libraries.
However, the door to this library is guarded, and access is granted only to those patrons who have a “ground pass.” This pass is given to UN staff members, to institutions which demonstrate a legitimate research need for the UN material, and to organizations which have become affiliated with the DPI.
Thus, a clear benefit--the ground pass--came to the Watchtower when it affiliated itself, and in the absence of a clear, documented example of even one single political benefit, I think the need for the library ground pass should stand as the most likely reason for the affiliation.
Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
Joseph,
It is almost certainly true that the WTS affiliated out of convenience - mainly because they are so arrogant that they will sacrifice their published principles at the drop of a hat to get what they want in the most facile manner. After all, what are principles shed in comparison to lives wasted?
But tell me, do you approach your physics with the same healthy skepticism with which you appear to approach the story of the UN and the Watchtower Society? For, if you do, then I do believe that you must be a diehard proponent of the aether and cold fusion.
You must first swim in the Watchtower's waters before you can be so smug as to give swimming lessons to those who have not only swum in them, but who have lived to tell the tale.
Stick around by all means - you may eventually learn a thing or two. But perhaps, in the meantime, you should devote yr comments to PRL. If you can get 'em in, that is.
Best,
Lionel
OK, Joseph some of what you have said makes sense. However, my problem is that the Watchtower condemned the UN for being one of the scarlet beasts mentioned in Revelation. It just wouldn't make sense.
The three things that bother me about the whole UN affiliation are:
1) They signed the agreement/application every year
2) They put out favorable Awake! articles about the UN during the
entire time, thus proving they were aware of the requirements.
(Side Point: Before I learned of their affiliation, I would always
wondered why they were saying such favorable things about the UN).
3) They were hypocritical toward the UN and toward the Rank and File.
So many stupid people, so few comets! :o)
JosephAlanF:
I have already posted several webpages which show the WTS participating in several "human rights" hearings/conferences around the globe post-1992, including such held in western Europe, Russia, and the U.S. (including at least 3 Congressional Hearings).
Please document any such participation pre-1992.
You also overlooked my post that showed that the number of "UN citations" in the Watchtower Publications Index fell in half immediately following their obtaining the "UN Library Card", and it took several years for citations to return to the pre-NGO level.
Say "hi" to AlanAssWipe in your next email exchange.
gilwarrior,
Joseph's argument sidesteps the following facts:
(i) The WTS has condemned the League and the UN in apocalyptic, almost crazed, terms for 80 years. It is, for goodness sake, the scarlet colored wild beast of Rev. with the world empire of false religion - the whore of Babylon sat atop it.
(ii) JWs have been prohibited from having anything to do with political or religious organizations for decades - things like joining the YMCA's gym or mowing the lawn for a church have routinely led to disciplinary action.
(iii) In 1991 the WTS voluntarily affiliated with the UN as an NGO associated with the DPI. Why they did this is secondary to the fact that they did affiliate, thereby accepting the rules de facto.
(iv) The 1968 UN resolutions 1296 and 1297 specifically stated that affiliated NGO's must support and work to further UN principles etc.
(v) Each year the WTS received a document that re-stated the responsibilities of affiliated NGOs together with paperwork to complete.
(vi) Since 1991 numerous Awake! articles have obviously changed their tone towards the UN and put it - at least to outsiders -in an apparently favorable light. Thus, they were obviously aware of what affiliation involved and wrote their articles accordingly. In a word, they sold out. If it was only for a library card, rather than political advantage, that makes it worse in my book. Rather like Esau and his selling his birthright for a "swallow of the red."
If the WTS joined merely to get a library card, this does not alter the fact that the Society still affiliated and accepted the attendant requirements - requirements which would have got any JW disfellowshipped if he or she accepted them. Now, imagine that the WTS, for some strange reason, was actually unaware of those requirements. That does not mean that the obligations didn't exist - ignorance of the law is no defense.
Given all of that, the WTS should come at least come clean with an honest apology. An admission to the members that they goofed badly. If they were unaware of the rules then they should state that honestly with a credible explanation - an article in Awake! would do the job. However, the have chosen, instead, to lie by implying that the requirements for NGOs have changed. They almost certainly have changed in certain ways, but the core responsibilities remain unchanged. In addition, depsite the considerable publicity that has been given to this issue, the WTS has pulled its usual trick of saying little publicly and spreading disinformation privately. This from a religion that calls itself "The Truth."
So, yet again, we find the WTS engaged in doublespeak and lies.
Alward, in this and his previous posts, misses the point - who really cares why they affiliated? That is a secondary issue. It is the requirements for affiliation - which they accepted - that makes this a scandal, especially in view of the WTS's savage denunciations, not just of the UN, but also of religions that promote the UN or who, as the WTS claims, use their NGO status to their own advantage - e.g., the Catholic Church. It is silly to say "maybe the WTS didn't know." They should have known, and, as I said, if they actually didn't then they should admit that. I'd add that they seemed to know the rules when they were hurling their invective at other religions in similar positions.
But the WTS doesn't want to admit that it agreed to the rules - for that would disillusion JWs. They also don't want to look stupid by saying that they were unaware of requirements that had existed since 1968. This is because they claim to speak for God. So they do what comes naturally - they lie and hope that the JWs, being the gullible lot that they are, will forget that it ever happened.
It is typical of the WTS - they demand absolute obedience from their flock, hurl vitriol at all other religions, and yet expect infinite tolerance when it comes to their many mistakes. Just what you'd expect from a group that thinks that it has a direct line to God.
LPH
Lying Joe states the following:
However, the door to this library is guarded, and access is granted only to those patrons who have a “ground pass.” This pass is given to UN staff members, to institutions which demonstrate a legitimate research need for the UN material, and to organizations which have become affiliated with the DPI.Notice how lying Joe side steps the library card issue. A Watchtower letter From the Chairman's Committee of the World Headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses to the Branch Committees dated November 1, 2001 stated the following when it came to the library card issue.Thus, a clear benefit--the ground pass--came to the Watchtower when it affiliated itself, and in the absence of a clear, documented example of even one single political benefit, I think the need for the library ground pass should stand as the most likely reason for the affiliation.
Our purpose in registering with the Department of Public Information as a nongovernmental organization (NGO) in 1991 was to have access to research material avaiable on health, ecological and social problems at the United Nations library facilities. We had been using the library for many years prior to 1991, but in that year it became necessary to register as an NGO to have continued accessFirst lie - the WTS was already an NGO. Their accreditation allowed them to become an "associated" NGO with DPI.
Second lie - they were accredited in 1992 not 1991
Third lie - all information related to health, environment and social issues can be obtained at UN depository libraries around the greater New York area (there are at least 4). These depositories are open to the public. If the information is not available then a person can order it through the interlibrary loan system (just like I did). Thus, one does not need to access the material at the UN's main library when it is available at other sites within easy driving distance.
Fourth lie - In 1991 there was NO change to the UN library system. This according to the UN librarian clerk is a big time lie. There has been no changes in the system around that date.
Fifth lie - If the depository doesn't have your information and you don't want interlibrary loan, a person can still have access for research documents and come to the UN library without becoming an "associated" NGO with DPI.
For further information and confirmation please refer to Reference 33 in an essay at Zev's site http://www.geocities.com/plowbitch69/ on the library issue and I believe Reference 25 has the Watchtower letters on the issue.
Keep on lying Joe.
One final point. Mad Apostate did a helluva lot of work clearly showing the political end of this mess. You have my utmost respect for this work and is something that is not talked about much.
hawk
hawk,
You said "The November 1, 2001 Watchtower stated the following when it came to the library card issue."
I don't think you mean that it appeared in a magazine did you?
LPH
