MemberPostViewed: times
MightyoneIf the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....


This may be the topic of an old thread but, if the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point of the whole religion? I mean, it doesn't appear that anybody is getting rich or am I missing something. Aside from the WTS collecting prime properties in the heights, nobody appears to be benefitting. 
IP: qqjO+wLvo2BvQc6g
R.CrusoeRe: If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....

Some of them have a lifestyle they preserve for themsleves!

3rd 4th generation families have a whole family outfit built on its foundation and even business/ work environments they now have complete control over!

A lot to sacrifice for throwing in the towel of delusion! 

IP: UGgdTVnuRP0HB4i7
jwfactsRe: If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....

Don't forget that each of the Governing Body was indoctrinated for decades prior to reaching that position. They honestly believe it to be the truth, and that they are benefiting people.

It is possible that some of the current GB have come to realise they are not directed by Jehovah (as occurred to R. Franz). However, it is a very difficult thing to leave. The GB have one of the powerful roles on earth (amongst their peers). They have accomodation, meals and cleaners and chauffers provided. They travel the globe. They are looked up to as the very hand of God, his direct spokesmen, receiving what borders on idolatry from many JW's. Imagine at the age of 60+, with no education, no "worldly" friends and no financial backing leaving that and starting a new life.  

IP: ZTgR75rhGuKzOKTe
MightyoneRe: Re: If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....
I see your point, but if you were in a position like that which you mentioned, don't you think you would change the things you know to be wrong. I mean, the recent changes on just about everything being left up to our individual consciences, is a huge step to restoring the idea that we truely answer to Jehovah rather than man.
IP: qqjO+wLvo2BvQc6g
greendawnRe: If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....
The WTS will never give a full disclosure of its finances and financial activities therefore we can never know for sure what exactly they have been doing with the wealth they built up from their printed products income, donations and investments over 120 years and how much of it they have.

It appears to be a multi billion dollar operation a vast financial empire so they could be doing well from money they invested in unknown to us sectors. And nobody knows who gets the money, the GB could be just a front concealing and serving the real owners and beneficiaries of this vast corporation.

What's sure is that this org practices deception of great depth and it behaves more like a business rather than a religion. It no doubt knows how to horribly distort biblical verses (eg the early church was run by a GB which acted and governed just like the JW GB do today) to promote its hidden agenda conceals many secrets and mysteries.
IP: BcX+0UftaERxYqOb
IP_SECRe: If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....

I dunno, here are a few possibs

Evil rises to the top to dominate (power is intoxicating)  Who here wouldnt have millions of people doing exactly what they say on a whim?

The really dont know any better.

Someone besides them is pulling the strings behind the curtain.

Its just an out of control machine and they are too afraid to turn it off or jump off themselves

They really, really think the great and fear inspiring day of Joe hovah is near.

IP: lZTX7IDCWApu8WUz
MightyoneRe: Re: If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....
I have read old information about the mason, illuminati and so forth, is there any concrete link today?
IP: qqjO+wLvo2BvQc6g
IP_SECRe: If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....
I have read old information about the mason, illuminati and so forth, is there any concrete link today?

There is no evidence of masonic influence over the JWs.

Nothing concrete no. Circumstantially it makes sense that a small group (illuminati or however you want to label them) in power would use larger groups to control masses of people. This can be applied no just to the JWs but to all religion, politics, and commerce.

IP: lZTX7IDCWApu8WUz by IP_SEC: Correct formatting
Bonnie_ClydeRe: If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....
I see your point, but if you were in a position like that which you mentioned, don't you think you would change the things you know to be wrong. I mean, the recent changes on just about everything being left up to our individual consciences, is a huge step to restoring the idea that we truely answer to Jehovah rather than man.
Ray Franz tried to change the things he knew to be wrong back in the 70's, and they kicked him out.  He did get a little bit of financial help.  I think his friend, Ed Dunlap, had it a little harder.  There are severe repercussions for going against the Borg.
IP: lpLSwqxTUYd3Uk55
doofdaddyRe: If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....

I believe they face the same terror that we did, all who have moved on from their teachings.

Their whole lives revolve around the ritual of meetings, preaching and hangin' out with people who believe the same.

To revoke their beliefs is to face death of the ego, basically a form of madness, as they would need to reform their whole persona.

It's fear of admitting their lives have been in vain (and change) that creates their blindness just like most thinking witnesses.

IP: oOure4Rp1n6hsZcT
ninjaRe: If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....
mormons,scientologists and heaven's gate all think/thought that they are/were doing the right things too....doesn't make it so
IP: 0U0EBh5oXKm7KOEg
GopherRe: If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....
if you were in a position like that which you mentioned, don't you think you would change the things you know to be wrong.

If "I" were in the position -- like on the Governing Body? They can only change things through a 2/3 vote. One person cannot change things there. They've left plenty of wromg things in place for too long, and they continue to do so. Up until the 1970s they didn't allow community service for its members who conscientiously objected to military service. So a lot of its young men spent years unnecessarily rotting in jails. They didn't fix their affiliation with the United Nations (as a non-governmental organization) until it was exposed on this website and in the UK newspaper "The Guardian". They still haven't fixed the corrupt "two witness" rule as applied to child molestors in the organization, leading to thousands of known molestors having a safe haven in the organization. There are many more examples.

 I mean, the recent changes on just about everything being left up to our individual consciences, is a huge step
PLEASE -- do spell out what "recent changes" you refer to. Last I heard, the WTS leadership was still working hard on making and enforcing more and more specific rules on how rank-and-file JW's were to live life. When I was a child, there was a large "grey area" where people could make their own decisions. Starting in the early 1980's, all I heard was that the "brothers" were taking liberties in the grey areas and that the grey area was narrowing.
IP: 6LGQSDWM/EwVRtXL
ataloaRe: If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....

I think in the beginning they probably did have good motives, but power, even a little bit, corrupts over time. Business gets big and all the decisions are made to sustain it; people become statistics.

I used to think that Babylon the Great would fall because money would be taken away; but now I think it's more about the power.

Think of an elder you know that is a complete ass (one that was not born in, but came in off the street). Very likely someone like that had a good heart in the beginning. But power corrupted.

No, over time, it becomes all about the ritual, as someone said. There is no love there. You can't seem to find anyone who even understands the principle of love on a practical day-to-day basis.

I went back and read some of your posts - you seem to be honestly searching for some answers. Your apology touched me. Not everyone here has abandoned all belief. I still believe the basic tenets of JW. If WBTS would issue a huge apology and all step down and stop all their foolishness, I would give it a second look.

 

IP: 5ZVAQWMvHT+1voLs
journey-onRe: If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....

The GB and others in the upstair rooms of that organization remind me of the panhandler on the corner of the street

wearing old clothing and looking pathetic asking for a handout.  You feel sorry for him because he holds up a sign

saying: "Hungry, please help."  Then at the end of the day, he walks around the corner where no on sees him and

drives off in his brand new Mercedes!  Who knew!?  No one can possibly know how many side

corporations there are that service Mother's needs, under whose family name they are listed, or even where the bank

accounts are being held.  There is absolutely no transparancy in an organization like that that is shielded by freedom

of religion.  Who is going to audit them?....the IRS?

IP: DURusQ7jsyFdCYvN
journey-onRe: If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....

Check this out:

http://www.nysdta.org/Decisions/813952.dec.htm

Scroll down to the very bottom and see just who the seller of record was. This property was worth big $$$!

1. Documents in the record indicate that the seller of record was the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. The relationship between Mrs. Bedford and the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania is not specified in the record.

IP: DURusQ7jsyFdCYvN by journey-on: Correct formatting
oompaRe: If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....
JWFACTS: They honestly believe it to be the truth, and that they are benefiting people.
I soooo hate to agree with this.  But to put in "worldly" terms, "these are some incredibly nice, sincere, honested hearted, and totally misguided motherfluckers"......oompa
IP: fpEQlPi8K6ZBniIf
The OracleRe: If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....

 

Don't forget that each of the Governing Body was indoctrinated for decades prior to reaching that position. They honestly believe it to be the truth, and that they are benefiting people.

It is possible that some of the current GB have come to realise they are not directed by Jehovah (as occurred to R. Franz). However, it is a very difficult thing to leave. The GB have one of the powerful roles on earth (amongst their peers). They have accomodation, meals and cleaners and chauffers provided. They travel the globe. They are looked up to as the very hand of God, his direct spokesmen, receiving what borders on idolatry from many JW's. Imagine at the age of 60+, with no education, no "worldly" friends and no financial backing leaving that and starting a new life.  

JWFacts hit the nail on the head.

It is very difficult to leave.  The enitre cultish religion is designed to make it extremely hard on a person to even fade away.  I have a wonderful friend who is trapped in this way, and he agonizes on a daily basis about the whole thing.  Now just imagine if you were actually at Bethel with your entire life wrapped up in it....that would be exceedingly tough.  That is what makes Ray Franz's move all the more remarkable.  I would say there are hundreds, if not thousands of people in positions of great responsibility in circuit and district work, and at bethel homes all over the world who have had their awakenings and feel completely trapped.  I also believe there are propably at least a couple GB members who feel this way.  Being that close to the action...to the decision making process... you would almost HAVE TO KNOW it is a farce.  It is for this reason I hold the GB 100% accountable for this entire mess.

It's a sad state of affairs, but I do see a crack in the armor.  I honestly believe the core foundation of the WT is beginning to show its cavernous weaknesses.  Their will always be dillussional people, and the simple and uneducated who will want to be a part of the WT world, but the intelligent and socially normally population of the JW ranks are all coming out - slowly but surely...the great Exodus is well on its way.

 

The Oracle

IP: Yy5EIPvyeiJn41ce
Quirky1Re: Re: If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....

Oracle -

 the intelligent and socially normally population of the JW ranks are all coming out - slowly but surely...the great Exodus is well on its way.

I find this to be the amusing part and the most interesting.  Even tho I still consider myself a newbie to JWD I have seen a growth of newbies forming on this site everyday.

Oompa - you crack me up!

Have fun!

Quirky1 

IP: 0Iv2yBdP7mp6xDyq
Homerovah the AlmightyRe: If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....

What is the Point ?

Power, privilege , status and a livelihood,   I met a GB member once and you could easily see his pumped up stature and personality

These are the very things that the men like Judge Rutherford and alike saw the potential and lets not forget the money.

This international billion dollar pyramid was built and created on a formulation of lying deceptive propaganda sold directly to the general public

Unfortunately it worked.

Sure it may be true that the GB members aren't wearing Rolex watches and Armaini suits but for some men the power and privilege is enough, particularly when

they look down from where they come from in the organization, standing up on top of the tower is very good indeed.

And where else could a poorly educated individual rise to such levels of power in a huge Corporation like this ?

IP: iucvI/kmffofaTZJ
QuandryRe: If the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point.....

This may be the topic of an old thread but, if the G.B. and WTS don't have good motives, what is the point of the whole religion?

I have wondered this myself.

Of course, few witneses really know about the history of the religion. Few know that Russell was influenced by Egyptology, the prevailing popular ideology of the mid to late 1800's, and that he got the year 1914 from measuring a pyramid, calling it "God's great stone witness." Few know that Rutherford had a palatial house built in San Diego, deeded it to "ancient worthies" who were soon to be resurrected, and stayed in it during the winter, driving one of his two sixteen cylinder cadillacs.

Ray Franz described meetings of the governing body. One I found interesting was concerning how several years ago (I think in the 80's) they determined the appropriateness of certain sex acts among married people. It seems there was a case in South America concerning a woman wanting to know if she was scripturally free to remarry. Her husband had had sex with animals, and also anal intercourse with a woman. The governing body talked about this for a while. Franz reported that no prayer was said before determination of any outcome, nor were scriptures studied to examine the issue. They stated that while degrading, the woman was not free to remarry because the sex could produce no offspring. The woman, who would not take her husband back, because she could not remain with a man who'd had sex with an animal, remarried and was disfellowshipped for adultery.

Later, the GB decided to look into the issue further. They stated that any anal or oral sex was like a prostiture, and should not be done. Many married couples decided to confess to elders that they had engaged in this type of sex. This caused many embarassing sessions in the "back room" and some were disfellowshipped.

Later, of course, the "new light" was reversed. But how many marriages did this destroy? How much humiliation to many?

How many more situations could we describe? The WTS being a non-governmental associate of the UN? The generation changes? The 1935 changes with ever increasing numbers of annointed? New governing body members much younger? The nethinim? (that one seems to have gone away)  Changes in blood doctrine-no whole but O.K. in components?

Yes, I have wondered about the whole thing many times. It seems at this point it is just self-perpetuating.........

IP: nEh0Tt9N3J5AzqvD