What God Really Wants

I am thoroughly conviced that if the Bible is to be believed as it is written, then God has gone out of his way to want all humans to be atheists. He goes out of his WAY to convince people he couldn?t possibly exist, and if he does exist, he wants no one to follow him.

With the exception of the books of Job, Daniel and Ezekiel almost all the other books of the old testament are full of gore, murder and genocide either from God himself, or upon the direct orders of God.

The book of Job is a morality play and none of the players (and likely the author) were Jews. That?s probably why it doesn?t have any gore. The Israelites were the most bloodthirsty nation that existed back then and were more blood thirsty than any nation that preceded them. They searched for no converts. They executed anyone who got in their way. God ordered them to stone to death any child who was ?stubborn.? Nice God. They liked to hack up bodies and then send the parts to their enemies. They executed entire communities and civilizations, and loved to smash the brains of little children against the walls. They were less civilized than the worst murderer behind the walls of San Quentin prison.

The books of Daniel and Ezekiel are full of fanciful and ridiculous stories and dreams that can be interpreted in a myriad of ways and have no meaning for us today. Unless someone like the WTS finds a particularly fanciful dream or vision that they can rework and reshape to fit into their weird notions of ?prophecy? and doctrine.

Any parent who would sit down by little children and read these stories of gore, slaughter and mayhem would be guilty of child abuse and should be locked up. Any book that so terrifies little children is child abuse and false. Any God that decrees a book like this be read to little children is a child abuser-God and false.

Consider a parent who had a child saying this to the child: ?If any of your friends commits a horrible crime, I?m going to execute YOU.? That would be the most evil, vengeful and unfair thing for a parent to do to a child, wouldn?t it? Yet, that is EXACTLY what God did to his own son: assassinated an entirely innocent person for the crimes of someone else.

Note that God told Adam and Eve if they ate of the fruit they would ?surely die.? He didn?t say he would assassinate them, did he? And he did not assassinate them. He let them live long, long lives. So, why did God have to have his own son assassinated? Why didn?t he let him live a long, long life and then die, like Adam and Eve. There was absolutely no parity between the crime of the first couple and the ?redemption? of the crime by Jesus. The Bible says Jesus was brought to the earth to ?suffer,? but how much did he suffer in reality. He had perfect health. He never got sick. Never had diarrhea. Never had to see loved ones die. Never had the flu. Oh, sure he suffered for a few short hours before he died, but that is NOTHING compared to the suffering almost all humans who live to an old age suffer. Actually, the greatest suffering Jesus could have had was to live to an old age, instead of returning to glory in heaven after a very short life of only 33 years. I?ll bet Jesus suffered a hell of a lot less than Adam and Even did over their 900 + years. They had to suffer through one of their sons murdering the other and then being cursed by God for doing so. Why didn?t God just kill his rebellious son Satan or at least send him away for a long ?time out? to think about it? Why did he have to screw up the entire human race, when he himself said that children would not have to suffer for the sins of the parents. And then, why did he turn around and blame US for the mess he put us in?

What kind of a strange God is BibleGod?, anyway? How can any sane person think that his actions somehow ?prove? his mercy and goodness? It?s just the opposite.

Therefore, because of his actions and insane way of dealing with problems, he has gone out of his way to make sure humans get every opportunity in the world to not want to believe him, or at the very least to only believe in him because he terrorizes them into doing so?

BibleGod? wants us all to be atheists. Yep. That?s it!

Farkel

I never thought Jesus had the most horrendous death of all people, either.

Time for the Farkel review....I give this post my thumbs up!  Good job.

When I was a dub, I remember asking a few questions in the "bookstudy" about why there was so much really terrible stuff in the Bible.  The canned answer was something along the line that this is the people he HAD to work with, faults and all...to show how wonderful and merciful of a God he was.  Yeah right.

I like your spin on the Bible contributiing towards the validity of being an athiest.  There is so much "negative" evidence in the Bible pushing someone towards being a nonbeliever that even without modern sciences as a tool, you could still make an intelligent decision.

Opps, better get out of here before the flame war starts.

Skipper

he has gone out of his way to make sure humans get every opportunity in the world to not want to believe him, or at the very least to only believe in him because he terrorizes them into doing so

and yet millons do believe in him for reasons other than you have illustrated (although some may be terrorized because they read the book as if God penned it himself).

dearest Daddy-O... now you KNOW I can't let you go on saying things that aren't TRUE, right?  And the greatest of love and peace to you!

Now, I know you're talking about The BibleGod, but there are a couple things you've stated that I have to set straight, if I may:

Note that God told Adam and Eve if they ate of the fruit they would ?surely die.?  He didn?t say he would assassinate them, did he?  And he did not assassinate them.  He let them live long, long lives.  So, why did God have to have his own son assassinated?  Why didn?t he let him live a long, long life and then die, like Adam and Eve. 

First, my Father did not assassinate my Lord, nor did He have him assassinated.  He LET... my Lord... offer HIMSELF... as a sacrifice.  And it was not an undesirable thing that my Lord did.  He gave himself... willingly.  Having observed earthling man for milleniums prior, he knew what horrors we were capable of.  He "counted the cost"... BEFORE he undertook the endeavor.

There was absolutely no parity between the crime of the first couple and the ?redemption? of the crime by Jesus. 

Well, that's not exactly correct:  Adam... in order to gain something for himself (the knowledge of good AND bad)... sold his progeny.  He not only sold HIS soul to the Devil... but that of all of his offspring.  That was a deal... that ADAM made.  It is because the "particulars" of the deal are not included in "the Bible"... that this TRUTH... is obscured.

The Bible says Jesus was brought to the earth to ?suffer,? but how much did he suffer in reality.  He had perfect health.  He never got sick.  Never had diarrhea.  Never had to see loved ones die.  Never had the flu.  Oh, sure he suffered for a few short hours before he died, but that is NOTHING compared to the suffering almost all humans who live to an old age suffer. 

Again, you err.  My Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... actually DID suffer.  Greatly.  He did NOT have perfect health and he DID get sick.  When seeing him, most CRINGED... because of the state of his flesh:  he was RIDDLED WITH DISEASE, even diseases usually found only in women!  For EVERY TIME he healed someone, he did so by taking THEIR "sin" (corruption)... into HIS body!  Thus, when they came to arrest him, he was SO disfigured, that they fell away from him!  And he DID see loved ones die.  He saw both John the Baptist and Lazarus die... as well as some others, including children. 

Actually, the greatest suffering Jesus could have had was to live to an old age, instead of returning to glory in heaven after a very short life of only 33 years. 

Do you not think that the fact that he was going to leave his mother, a widow, whose care was HIS responsibility... did not weigh heavily on him?  C'mon, Daddy-O, you've got  a mother:  think about that.  But he died... that we all... might live. 

Adam... didn't give HIS life.  He didn't say to the Adversary, "Take me, but leave my children."  No, HE said, "Here, I'll give you my children, too!  Just give me what GOD has, and they're all yours!"  My Lord, however, said, "Take ME... and let THEM... go."

Ah, yes... Adam and Eve did have to contend with the land, childbirth, and a murderous son, poor things.  And, of course, it wasn't THEIR fault that they did...

Why didn?t God just kill his rebellious son Satan or at least send him away for a long ?time out? to think about it?

That will come, dear one... but things don't occur with the spirit realm as they occur with this one.  Truly.

HE... didn't.  HE... didn't sell us to Death.  Adam did.  HE... gave up His OWN Son... to buy us BACK... repurchase us... FROM Death... whom Adam sold us TO.  Do you not get that, dear one?

And then, why did he turn around and blame US for the mess he put us in?

Why do you not hear, when He says that He has provided a "WAY" for us OUT of the "mess"... that ADAM... and NOT He... put us in?

You mad at someone today, dear one?  Sounds like it.  Please... don't be.  Misdirected anger is never good, for the one directing it... or the one receiving it.

Peace to you!

Your servant, friend and a slave of Christ,

SJ

 

AGuest----You're just so sweet. It was a wonderful rebuttal.

Aguest - if God did in fact "repurchase" through Jesus, then why wasn't the "reward" immediate, as it was for Adam & Eve's "Punishment"?  Why did it have to wait thousands of years?

Adam didn't just sell his IMMEDIATE progeny; he sold ALL of his progeny... at least up until some point in time.  Because that was the DEAL! 

I mean, do you think Death only wanted one or two lives... Death... who is "never satisfied"?  No, dear one.  What the Adversary offered... to "be like God"... knowing good AND bad... didn't come cheap!   True, the Adversary lied on what was actually to be DELIVERED... but Adam "bought" it... and as a result, had to "sell" a LOT of folks to pay the price!  Thus, he sold himself... AND all of his progeny... supposedly for the opportunity to be "like God."  I say supposedly, because obviously, he didn't think hard about the "knowing... bad" part. 

And that's not too hard to understand is it?  I mean, how many of US succumb... sometimes quite detrimentally... to scheisty sales people who make promises they don't deliver? Ah, well... hindsight is... yada, yada, yada...

And so... God is allowing time for ALL that Adam "sold"... who WISH to be... BE "covered"... if only they would take advantage OF the "cover"... the Propitiatory, His Son, my Lord JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH.

I bid you peace.

A slave of Christ,

SJ

dear Minimus... and may JAH bless!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SJ

AGuest-

I still think that Adam and Eve had no idea what they were getting into. "God" obviously did not outline what "selling their progeny" would entail. He left them with extremely vague warnings and tons of naivete. They were just like children in a sense.

Farkel-

Very good threads today!!

Consider a parent who had a child saying this to the child: ?If any of your friends commits a horrible crime, I?m going to execute YOU.? That would be the most evil, vengeful and unfair thing for a parent to do to a child, wouldn?t it? Yet, that is EXACTLY what God did to his own son: assassinated an entirely innocent person for the crimes of someone else.

Very good point! The "choice" that Jesus made to be assassinated wasn't really a choice at all. God expected him to do this. How often does a child do something they don't want to do, to please a parent?

Plus, look what happened when Adam & Eve didn't do exactly as they were expected. Jesus might've done what he did for fear that a worse fate awaited him if he did not. He might've let himself be assassinated due to coercion or fear, not honor or obligation.

Well, when Jesus "repurchased" said progeny, why wouldn't the same rules have come into play? 

Why would this only taken 2,000 years or so?  Why not 500 years, why not 10,000 years? etc. etc. etc. - it just never ends.

The simple fact in this "deal" - Adam supposedly sold our souls so to speak, and Jesus supposedly bought them back.  Where in the contract does it say it was gonna take upteen 1000's of generations for the deal to revert?  For every person that "chooses" to be covered or not covered, 2-3 more souls are born.  So this is just  simply not a logical response.  God gave us the ability to reason, and there simply is none in this argument.  It makes no sense.

since we can dictate to God a timetable... I guess you would be correct:  it's taking too long.  He needs to do something... now.  Right?  Because regardless of what others... including God who does not want ANY to die... want... we're fed up.  Enough time has passed, future generations be damned!  We want "paradise"... now!  Right?

I don't think God moves by our timetable, dear PG.

(Funny how we cry about life being "too short", though, isn't it?)

Peace to you!

A slave of Christ,

SJ

 

AGuest-

So, you claim that Adam knew exactly what he was getting into, eh? He knew that "selling his progeny" was what "God" meant by having the "knowledge of good and evil"? That's a bit of a leap if you ask me. Who would've thought that that meant milleniums of horrors befalling their children? No one! Especially not two naive humans who had no knowledge of anything outside their sheltered lives. Adam DID NOT know what taking a bite of that fruit would mean. "God" chose not to give him the big picture and we all suffer because "God" chose to be short-winded. This was the most important thing to discuss in the history of mankind, and "God" chose to throw a couple of lame warnings out and leave it. How loving.

Also, even if Adam "thought" he knew what was up, it was "God's" responsibility to lay it all out for him. If "God" was going to make such a silly rule he should've outlined the consequences more fully.

I suppose we could go back and forth with the analogies to prove our opposing points, but I digress.

I have come to believe that God is part of the fabric of the universe in which we live and as such, cannot make arbitary decisions as have been discussed. We ourselves and the interactions between us are what make up part of the universe's conciousness. I really would like to believe we go somewhere when we die, but even if we do, I guess it is still in that same universe.

amazing isn't it - something so obvious - and yet fundamentalists still insist on being so 'christian' offensive

Behold, I do a deed in your day

A Guest:

If this is true:

then the sacrifice, according to YOUR FATHER'S own book (Bible) would be worthless, despicable.

Malachi 1:8:

And Leviticus 22:20

And Deuteronomy 15:21

And we shouldn't forget: Hebrews 9:14

So now you claim:

Well all I can say to that is EWWWW! and also AAAHAHAHAHA!

Odrade

Farkel:

My Dearest Aguest,

You said:

: First, my Father did not assassinate my Lord, nor did He have him assassinated.  He LET... my Lord... offer HIMSELF... as a sacrifice.  And it was not an undesirable thing that my Lord did.  He gave himself... willingly.

Baloney.  The Bible clearly says that God "offered up" his own son as a sacrifice.  There is nothing in the Bible that indicates that his son volunteered to do anything.  "Dad" made the rules and "Son" carried them out.  Just as it has always been in all the Bible stories:  kids had no rights.  NEVER in the OT part of the Bible will you find words that tell parents to honor and cherish and nurture children.  But you have a Commandment(tm) that tells children to honor their parents.  Nowhere in the Bible are parents admonished to treat children as little human beings, too.  BUT the Bible is very explicit about what parents should do to children who are "stubborn":  stone them to death, and in cases less severe than that to beat the shit out of them.  The Bible is very clear about this:  children, and women have NO rights and NO respect in the Bible preceding the time of Jesus, and women have no rights in the time of Paul and thereafter.  Is God a God of confusion and ever-changing rules or is the Old Testament version of his rules true and his Will?  In either case, He can't be trusted.  He's a tyrant and he's evil.  No father who is sane would ever chose to be like "BibleGod(tm)".  Sane parents don't stone "stubborn" children to death.  BibleGod(tm) demands this sentence.

It's crap.

Farkel 

 

Aguest, are you stoned?  Sounds like you been smoking some of the sweet stuff.