Watchtower says JW meetings follow the 1st century model

Modern Dub meetings follow the format of the first century Christian meetings, or is that vice versa?

Subliminal messages reinforce the message found in the Watchtower of November 15, 2002. Page six shows a picture of St Paul's Basilica in Rome with the message that this is not the place for "spiritual refreshment".

The facing page (p7) shows an illustration of what is purported to be a meeting of first century Christians. Just like the picture on the following page of a modern-day meeting at a Kingdom Hall, there is a chairman facing neat rows of Christians of all ages, some with hands raised to make a comment. Open before the chairman are scrolls.

The following page shows a meeting with a conductor on the platform with Bible and WTS publication opened before him. He's on a platform facing neat rows of "Christians" of mixed ages, some with hands raised.

The message is clear: meetings at the Kingdom Hall follow the model of the first century Christians and are the only ones which do.

But how accurate is it?

The Australian writer Robert Banks, lecturer in history, philosophy and politics at Macquarie University in Sydney, Australia has written two books on the subject of first century christian communities. These books paint a completely different picture to that found in the claims of the WTS. In his book "Paul's Idea of Community" Anzea, Sydney 1979, he traces the format of the first century meetings from what is described in the apostle Paul's epistles. His smaller book "Going to Church in the First Century" Christian Books Publishing House, Texas is written in narrative style depicting "what it was like to attend an early christian gathering in the middle of the first century". Both these books are very useful in painting a picture of what the meetings were like in the first century.

It does not surprise us to find that the WTS is at odds with scholarly works. There is no basis for claiming that the early christian meetings were orderly meetings, punctual, and in the format of Dub gatherings with their Q&A study format.

The claim is made in the Watchtower article:

This claim is supported by the subliminal message given in the illustrations.

The following line carries this curious statement:

Presumably this is inserted to defend the current situation where Dubs are meeting in modern, well-equipped Kingdom Halls.

Certainly nothing like the model of the first century christians.

Cheers, Ozzie

..."The facing page (p7) shows an illustration of what is purported to be a meeting of first century Christians. there is a chairman facing neat rows of Christians of all ages, "....

Haha

..."some with hands raised to make a comment. Open before the chairman are scrolls".....

Hahahaha. too funny.

Hey oz. One of the brothers sent me the 1999 "Daniel" book. Ive read it twice and am still in shock at what I read. Im so stunned by its absurdity I dont know how to commence posting threads exposing how absurd it is. 

Too right, RF. Ahhh that book sure has some bizarre interpretations.

How about this one:

The "ships of Kittim" being interpreted as the "ships of Britain".

It goes like this (page 262): Kittim was Cyprus. In WW1 Cyprus was annexed by Britain. The NIV renders the text as "ships of the western coastlands". During WW1, the ships of Britain lay off the western coast of Europe. Therefore the ships of Kittim are the ships of Britain!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Huh????

Cheers, Ozzie

Just another Watchtower lie.

Early Christians had 'love feasts' - sanctioned, scheduled communal meals - that were referred to as part of their worship.

Possibly, in addition, they had feeding arrangements for poor widows ( see Acts and Timothy)

 

Witnesses have no such meetings today. In fact, they even did away with arranged meals at assemblies because

contributions were such a disaster.

 

metatron

Refiners fine: Suggest you save your creative angst for a more worthy project; the Daniel book is unworthy of anything approaching a temperate rejoinder.

Oz: Correct me please; but my world map shows Cyprus (Kittim) to be in the East Med...

hmmmm....

methinks that in the first century there was no "bible" to study.

methinks that the limit to the "get togethers" in the first century were for fellowship and upbuilding with others of "like mind"

if there were studies, it would have been of the "old testament" writings only, since none of the "new testament" existed.

I doubt seriously that there were any "formal" meetings, just "gatherings" of followers. 

I would guess that early Christian meetings were quite similar to the way Quakers handle things.  You sit in silence until you feel moved to contribute something - a song, a prophecy, prayer, personal experience, a lament.  Discussion would emerge from what is on the minds and hearts of the people attending.  Everything is "local needs".

Pauls reccomendation was that people behave courteously.  In other words take turns & don't try to force your agenda.  After all it is a meeting of friends. 

 

Clearly the society is wrong. Christians of this time did not have magick markers to mark their answers on the scrolls the night before the meeting.

 

Methinks it would be beneficial for the JWs to lay down their Watchtower publications with it's distorted and manipulatively twisted quotations of early christian writers and go right to the source of the early christians writers..the early christian writings.  They might be a little surprised at what they read there:

 

Ignatius of Antioch (105-115), Ignatius to the Ephesians

CHAPTER 19

19:1  And hidden from the prince of this world were the virginity of Mary and her child-bearing and

likewise also the death of the Lord -- three mysteries to be cried aloud -- the which were wrought in the

silence of God.

 19:2  How then were they made manifest to the ages? A star shone forth in the heaven above all the stars; and its light was unutterable, and its strangeness caused amazement; and all the rest of the constellations with the sun and moon formed themselves into a chorus about the star; but the star itself far outshone them all; and there was perplexity to know whence came this strange appearance which was so unlike them.

19:3  From that time forward every sorcery and every spell was dissolved, the ignorance of wickedness

vanished away, the ancient kingdom was pulled down, when God appeared in the likeness of man unto _newness of_ everlasting _life;_ and that which had been perfected in the counsels of God began to take effect. Thence all things were perturbed, because the abolishing of death was taken in hand.

 

Polycarp (110-140)

Polycarp 5:2

In like manner deacons should be blameless in the presence of His righteousness, as deacons of God and Christ and not of men; not calumniators, not double-tongued, not lovers of money, temperate in all things, compassionate, diligent, walking according to the truth of the Lord who became a minister (deacon) of all. For if we be well pleasing unto Him in this present world, we shall receive the

future world also, according as He promised us to raise us from the dead, and that if we conduct ourselves worthily of Him we shall also reign with Him, if indeed we have faith.

Polycarp 6:2

If then we entreat the Lord that He would forgive us, we also ought to forgive: for we are before the eyes of our Lord and God, and we must all stand at the judgment-seat of Christ, and each man must

give an account of himself.

Origen (203-250), De Pricipiis:

Secondly, That Jesus Christ Himself, who came (into the world), was born of the Father before all creatures; that, after He had been the servant of the Father in the creation of all things--"For by Him were all things made"--He in the last times, divesting Himself (of His glory), became a man, and was incarnate although God, and while made a man remained the God which He was; that He assumed a body like to our own, differing in this respect only, that it was born of a virgin and of the Holy Spirit: that this Jesus Christ was truly born, and did truly suffer, and did not endure this death common (to man) in appearance only, but did truly die; that He did truly rise from the dead; and that after His resurrection He conversed with His disciples, and was taken up (into heaven).

 

Awesome Web site: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

Sadie

And where are the microphone runners?

Anachronistic bullshit.

Dedalus

proplog2 makes an interesting point.

Ozzie, could you post any quotes from those books on what they say about how the actual meetings took place?

Bona dea.  Thank you for the link Sadie. I can forsee hours of fascination

"Page six shows a picture of St Paul's Basilica in Rome with the message that this is not the place for "spiritual refreshment".

Well, I've been to 20 years of JW meetings, and I've been in St Paul's Basilica once, and I can tell you I gained a LOT more "spritual refreshment" there than I ever did in the 20 years of those tiresome, non-descript meeting places filled with drones. 

I wonder, did the early Christians sing 3 sets of restrained, wanna-be hymns?  Did they require specific dress for men and women that didn't align with current culture?  Was everything pretty much contrived?  I wonder if the scolls had the passages numbered and small-print questions corresponding to the numbered passages at the bottom to "guide" the indoctrination, er, discussion. 

The JWs are so far removed from intelligent spiritual discourse that their comparing themselves to the first century Christians is quite a joke in any other circle than their own.  What a dreamworld they live in.

Hello Ozziepost,

 

thanks for this brilliant piece of observation.

I do remember reading what C.T. Russell

wrote about "meeting" together for study and

free discussion...!

Bona Dea:  thanks for the excellent research.

It really prove that the WTBS Inc. is really far

away ...from the 1st century meetings' model!

 

Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp

Hello everyone,

 

Dedalus: I did enjoy your comment about the

microphones!!!

 

Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp

I think the early christians gathered together socially....something the modern day JWs are afraid to do for fear of 'losing self control'.

Early christians also met to hear letters from the apostles read to their congregations.   It didn't happen 5 times a week.   Just when something important needed to be said.

Gawd! I wish they'd go back to the days of the first century christians.    Then maybe the dubs could enjoy life and put a real smile on their pasty faces.

Roomie,

Exactly!  The WTS draws a tenuous connection between Kittim=Britain by saying that Britain annexed Cyprus. Hmmmmmm!!!

Cheers, Ozzie

Oz, and thanks for the book recommendations; I've already ordered the two from amazon.com! In both cases, the readers' reviews are extremely positive.

Good news, Roomie. Enjoy the read.

Best regards, Ozzie

The Book of Acts gives insights on what transpired in meetings of early Christians.  Chapter 1:14 indicates that the first Christian community devoted themselves to prayer.  In verse 15 Peter spoke and also chapter 2:14 onward.  People were baptized in 2:41.  But the best description comes in verses 42-47.  1.  Adherence to the teachings of the Twelve.  2.  The centering of Christian life in the Eucharist or communion (Lord's Supper). See also 1 Cor. 10:16-17.  3. Prayer.  4.  A system of distribution of goods that led wealthier Christians to sell their possessions when the needs of the community's poor required it.  5.   Continued attendance at the Temple, since there was yet no thought of any dividing line between Christianity and Judaism.

The apostle Paul shows the rules of order in meetings at 1 Cor. 24:26  "When you assemble, one has a psalm, another an instruction, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation.  Everything should be done for building up."  Eph. 5:19 includes saying psalms, singing hymns and spiritual songs and giving thanks always.

I see in these passages very little resemblance to Kingdom Hall meetings.