Modern Dub meetings follow the format of the first century Christian meetings, or is that vice versa?

Subliminal messages reinforce the message found in the Watchtower of November 15, 2002. Page six shows a picture of St Paul's Basilica in Rome with the message that this is not the place for "spiritual refreshment".

The facing page (p7) shows an illustration of what is purported to be a meeting of first century Christians. Just like the picture on the following page of a modern-day meeting at a Kingdom Hall, there is a chairman facing neat rows of Christians of all ages, some with hands raised to make a comment. Open before the chairman are scrolls.

The following page shows a meeting with a conductor on the platform with Bible and WTS publication opened before him. He's on a platform facing neat rows of "Christians" of mixed ages, some with hands raised.

The message is clear: meetings at the Kingdom Hall follow the model of the first century Christians and are the only ones which do.

But how accurate is it?

The Australian writer Robert Banks, lecturer in history, philosophy and politics at Macquarie University in Sydney, Australia has written two books on the subject of first century christian communities. These books paint a completely different picture to that found in the claims of the WTS. In his book "Paul's Idea of Community" Anzea, Sydney 1979, he traces the format of the first century meetings from what is described in the apostle Paul's epistles. His smaller book "Going to Church in the First Century" Christian Books Publishing House, Texas is written in narrative style depicting "what it was like to attend an early christian gathering in the middle of the first century". Both these books are very useful in painting a picture of what the meetings were like in the first century.

It does not surprise us to find that the WTS is at odds with scholarly works. There is no basis for claiming that the early christian meetings were orderly meetings, punctual, and in the format of Dub gatherings with their Q&A study format.

The claim is made in the Watchtower article:

This claim is supported by the subliminal message given in the illustrations.

The following line carries this curious statement:

Presumably this is inserted to defend the current situation where Dubs are meeting in modern, well-equipped Kingdom Halls.

Certainly nothing like the model of the first century christians.

Cheers, Ozzie

Too right, RF. Ahhh that book sure has some bizarre interpretations.

How about this one:

The "ships of Kittim" being interpreted as the "ships of Britain".

It goes like this (page 262): Kittim was Cyprus. In WW1 Cyprus was annexed by Britain. The NIV renders the text as "ships of the western coastlands". During WW1, the ships of Britain lay off the western coast of Europe. Therefore the ships of Kittim are the ships of Britain!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Huh????

Cheers, Ozzie

Refiners fine: Suggest you save your creative angst for a more worthy project; the Daniel book is unworthy of anything approaching a temperate rejoinder.

Oz: Correct me please; but my world map shows Cyprus (Kittim) to be in the East Med...

I would guess that early Christian meetings were quite similar to the way Quakers handle things.  You sit in silence until you feel moved to contribute something - a song, a prophecy, prayer, personal experience, a lament.  Discussion would emerge from what is on the minds and hearts of the people attending.  Everything is "local needs".

Pauls reccomendation was that people behave courteously.  In other words take turns & don't try to force your agenda.  After all it is a meeting of friends. 

 

Methinks it would be beneficial for the JWs to lay down their Watchtower publications with it's distorted and manipulatively twisted quotations of early christian writers and go right to the source of the early christians writers..the early christian writings.  They might be a little surprised at what they read there:

 

Ignatius of Antioch (105-115), Ignatius to the Ephesians

CHAPTER 19
19:1  And hidden from the prince of this world were the virginity of Mary and her child-bearing and
likewise also the death of the Lord -- three mysteries to be cried aloud -- the which were wrought in the
silence of God.

 19:2  How then were they made manifest to the ages? A star shone forth in the heaven above all the stars; and its light was unutterable, and its strangeness caused amazement; and all the rest of the constellations with the sun and moon formed themselves into a chorus about the star; but the star itself far outshone them all; and there was perplexity to know whence came this strange appearance which was so unlike them.

19:3  From that time forward every sorcery and every spell was dissolved, the ignorance of wickedness
vanished away, the ancient kingdom was pulled down, when God appeared in the likeness of man unto _newness of_ everlasting _life;_ and that which had been perfected in the counsels of God began to take effect. Thence all things were perturbed, because the abolishing of death was taken in hand.

 

Polycarp (110-140)

Polycarp 5:2
In like manner deacons should be blameless in the presence of His righteousness, as deacons of God and Christ and not of men; not calumniators, not double-tongued, not lovers of money, temperate in all things, compassionate, diligent, walking according to the truth of the Lord who became a minister (deacon) of all. For if we be well pleasing unto Him in this present world, we shall receive the
future world also, according as He promised us to raise us from the dead, and that if we conduct ourselves worthily of Him we shall also reign with Him, if indeed we have faith.

Polycarp 6:2
If then we entreat the Lord that He would forgive us, we also ought to forgive: for we are before the eyes of our Lord and God, and we must all stand at the judgment-seat of Christ, and each man must
give an account of himself.

Origen (203-250), De Pricipiis:

Secondly, That Jesus Christ Himself, who came (into the world), was born of the Father before all creatures; that, after He had been the servant of the Father in the creation of all things--"For by Him were all things made"--He in the last times, divesting Himself (of His glory), became a man, and was incarnate although God, and while made a man remained the God which He was; that He assumed a body like to our own, differing in this respect only, that it was born of a virgin and of the Holy Spirit: that this Jesus Christ was truly born, and did truly suffer, and did not endure this death common (to man) in appearance only, but did truly die; that He did truly rise from the dead; and that after His resurrection He conversed with His disciples, and was taken up (into heaven).

 

Awesome Web site: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

Sadie

proplog2 makes an interesting point.

Ozzie, could you post any quotes from those books on what they say about how the actual meetings took place?

"Page six shows a picture of St Paul's Basilica in Rome with the message that this is not the place for "spiritual refreshment".

Well, I've been to 20 years of JW meetings, and I've been in St Paul's Basilica once, and I can tell you I gained a LOT more "spritual refreshment" there than I ever did in the 20 years of those tiresome, non-descript meeting places filled with drones. 

I wonder, did the early Christians sing 3 sets of restrained, wanna-be hymns?  Did they require specific dress for men and women that didn't align with current culture?  Was everything pretty much contrived?  I wonder if the scolls had the passages numbered and small-print questions corresponding to the numbered passages at the bottom to "guide" the indoctrination, er, discussion. 

The JWs are so far removed from intelligent spiritual discourse that their comparing themselves to the first century Christians is quite a joke in any other circle than their own.  What a dreamworld they live in.

Hello everyone,

 

Dedalus: I did enjoy your comment about the

microphones!!!

 

Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp

Roomie,

Exactly!  The WTS draws a tenuous connection between Kittim=Britain by saying that Britain annexed Cyprus. Hmmmmmm!!!

Cheers, Ozzie

Good news, Roomie. Enjoy the read.

Best regards, Ozzie