Where is Zion?

by refiners fire 24 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  refiners fire

  All three of the major "sects" have had prophetic failures, and all three have used the same reasonings and rationalizations to explain their prophetic "disappointment". The most outstanding example of this from Mormonism is presented for your edification. Many of the reasonings will be familiar to students of Witness failed prophecies.

  Firstly, the prediction, it is that Zion would be built and established in Jackson County, Missouri, within a generation. The prophecy was uttered by Gods mouthpiece, Joseph Smith, In july 1831, and is recorded in the key Mormon Doctrinal collection, the "Doctrines and Covenants" .

  Doctrine and Covenants 57 states: ..."Hearken oh ye elders of my church....who have assembled yourselves together, according to my commandments, in this land which is the land of Missouri, which is the land which I have appointed and consecrated for the gathering of the saints. Wherefore, this is the land of promise, and the place for the city of Zion......Behold, the place which is now called Independence is the centre place, and a spot for the temple is lying Westward, upon a lot which is not far from the courthouse. Wherefore it is wisdom that the land should be purchased by the saints, and also every tract lying Westward"....

  The thing to note here is that the city of Zion is certainly a literal city, to be built by the saints. Doctrine and Covenants 57 continues on to dispense duties in building and gathering money to buy land, to various of the churches key men. So it is a literal city, why, certain plots of land are specifically pointed out as locations to be directly obtained at the Lords command.

  Doctrine and Covenants 84, uttered in Sreptember 1832 states: ...."Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord,in the Western Boundaries of the state of Missouri......For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it"...

  However, there came over time to be a big problem. The residents of Independence and, in fact, of the state of Missouri, rose up in military force against the Mormon onslaught and bitter battle ensued. Battle which the Mormons ended up losing to the point of being run out of Missouri under military attack from the Army.

  What did God have to say about this apparent contradiction between prophecy and reality? Well Doctrine and Covenants 84 sets the stage for where blame for Gods word not coming to pass is to be apportioned :

  ..." And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant...and the former commandments which I have given them....That they may bring forth fruit meet for their fathers kingdom, otherwise there remain a scourge and judgement to be poured out upon the children of Zion. For shall the children of the kingdom pollute my holy land?"....

  yep , its the fault of the sheep. actually, a lot of revelation was coming forth at that time. The "Word of Wisdom , priesthood revelation, and revelations pertaining to the Celestial Kingdom. Fact was, the church needed purifying of bad practises, and aspects of true worship needed to be re inaugurated. Practises that had been lost since apostolic times. In a parallel to the witnesses in 1917, the Mormons were under condemnation for moral backsliding, and engaging in false practises. Like the 1917 Witnesses, re revelations of "pure worship" had to be recieved before the children were worthy of their inheritance.

  Brigham Young said about this:

  ..."I see men and women, a few of them, who were driven from the central stake of Zion in Jackson County, Missouri....look at the beautiful land that the Lord would have given them if all had been faithfull in keeping his commandments ....through the selfishness of some, which is idolatry, through their covetousness, and the lustfull desire of their minds, they were cast out"... (DBY 113)

  Just like the WT was "cast out" into "exile" in 1917 for celebrating Christmas, and removing pages from the "Finished Mystery" book. False, unworthy practises had to be expelled from the church before God could find them worthy of His coming again.

  Edited by - refiners fire on 4 July 2002 21:39:53

  Edited by - refiners fire on 4 July 2002 22:45:0

  Edited by - refiners fire on 4 July 2002 22:57:9
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  refiners fire

  What is the Church position on Zion now, 160 years after the event?

  I quote from a book called "Teachings of Presidents of the church" a current publication. There is a chapter dedicated to the subject of "building zion', among other things it says:

  ..." after that pattern and order by which Enoch built up and perfected the former zion, which was taken away to heaven, hence the saying went about that "Zion had fled", by and by it will come back again, and as Enoch prepared his people to be worthy of translation, so we must prepare ourselves to meet Zion from above when it shall return to earth".... (DBY 443)

  Why the city of Zion resides in heaven! Obviously the unprepared saints in the 1830s misapprehended Gods plan, they were not to build the Missouri zion, rather, God himself intends to return the former Zion of Enoch to the Missouri Zion site himself.

  Brigham Young explains why the heavenly Zion did not descend in the 1830s, as the church sheep expected:

  ..." We have been gathered for the express purpose of purifying ourselves... To be prepared for this work it has been necessary... to recieve the ordinances of the Holy Priesthood of the Son of God, which are necessary for the perfection of the saints preparatory to His coming. The ordinance of "Sealing" must be performed here, son to father, woman to man, children to parent, until the chain of generation is made perfect in the sealing ordinances back to father Adam"...(DBY 407)

  This is one of the revelations of pure worship that had to be revelated to the children of God, not revealed, or understood back in the 1830s . Not disimilar to the WTs understanding regarding the Apostolic "preaching work" in 1919. Pure worship is restored post prophetic disappointment.

  Brigham young goes on to elaborate:

  ..." We profess to BE Zion, if we are the pure in heart, .....where is zion?, Where the organization of the church of God is.......When we conclude to make a Zion we make it, and this work commences in the hearts of each person.....if we cease to hold fellowship with that which is corrupt and establish the Zion of God in our hearts, in our homes, in our cities, and thruout our land, we shall overcome the whole earth"....(assorted DBY quotes)

  Fact is..."Zion" is in heaven, its in each church members dreams and their hearts, its in Utah, and Melbourne, its in every Mormon tabernacle in all the "stakes" that radiate out from the Missouri "Centre Point". Its everywhere (invisibly) except where God stated it would be!!! The Mormon God will lower Zion into Missouri when the church members have built little Zions all over the earth themselves.

  In the wake of prophetic failure, False practises must be purged from the church, these are the reason God didnt come on time. And Correct worship practises are revealed, to be adopted by the church, so as to prepare and refine it for His coming.

  Edited by - refiners fire on 4 July 2002 23:1:47

  Edited by - refiners fire on 4 July 2002 23:9:58
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  D8TA

  If the war ended, that's where the party will be. Zion is near the earth's core, where it's still warm. The last...err...human...uh..

  ack.

  Sorry, I was watching The Matrix when I happened upon this thread....couldn't resist.

  * runs away *

  D8TA
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  refiners fire

  Thats okay dude.

  Noone hardly ever responds to any of my research threads, so im gratefull for any reaction I get.

  Anyway.... further to the theory, The other major sect, Adventism, does the same thing. The major "expectations" revolving around 1843 and October 1844 are well documented by many experts in the field of religious behaviour. Odd really, because i reckon the JWs predictive history is VASTLY more interesting than either the Adventists or the Mormons.Yet no experts ever reference it.

  After the great disappointment of October 1844, Millerism, (the group that adventism grew out of) fell into total disarray and hysterical behaviour, splintering into non existance.....except for one group. That which revolved around Ellen G White and her husband. This group survived and indeed thrived because it came up with an acceptable explanation for the 1844 "disappointment", this was... A revelation restoring "pure" worship which the church needed to practise before it could be acceptable to God. This revelation revealing the need to observe the SABBATH was published in a pamphlet called "A Word to the Little Flock" published by the Whites in about May 1847, two and a half years after the predictive failure. Therein was published a vision recieved by E G White in April of 1847 where Jesus Showed her the ark of the covenant in the heavenly temple and the 10 commandments therein. He then commanded her to reveal to all the world that the observance of the 4th commandment was the identifying mark of the true church.

  Sabbatarians have talked about nothing else ever since. The revelation of the Sabbath, restoring pure worship upon the earth, lost since Apostolic times, is the equivalent of the WTs revelation regarding the "preaching work" and the Mormon revelation regarding the sealing work. All were revelated in the heat surrounding predictive disappointments. And have become the major doctrines of the churches involved.

  Edited by - refiners fire on 5 July 2002 1:33:45
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  Beck_Melbourne

  Noone hardly ever responds to any of my research threads, so im gratefull for any reaction I get

  RF..Some of us do get visitors TOO ya know

  I liked your thread btw...except I have to print it off to take home to read over the next three days

  Beck
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  refiners fire

  BECK!!

  (weeps with joy at the sight of long lost Beck)

  If you need any of the big words explaining, just call me. (hehe)

  PS- You didnt tell ME there was a Melbourne get together, you know? the one everyone "wasnt interested in attending"?

  Edited by - refiners fire on 5 July 2002 2:23:45
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  Prisca

  Another RF groupie signing in....

  And I read it too!
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  D8TA

  Refiner's,

  I read pretty much every post, I miss a few. If you noticed, I don't really post in the "bibilical" discussion....heck, I even read LarsGuy stuff. I just read to expose myself to the variety of ideas that people have, with their interpretation of what the bible has to say. I view the bible as a "self-application" issue. If there is a message in the bible, then it's up to the person who reads it and interprets as to what it says. This doesn't mean that I deny myself from appreciating a different point of view, but can encourage my own interpretation from such views. Also, since I see it as a "personal interpretation" issue, I do not hold my opinion/interpretation as the end all be all. I find yours and various others on this board "biblical" posts very informative and educational.

  D8TA

  ( geeesh, you think I would take advantage of the "preview" option as to proof read my posts...ack...edited for spelling errors )

  Edited by - D8TA on 5 July 2002 2:23:45
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  refiners fire

  D8.

  It is all personal interpretation. I reserve the right even to be wrong in what I say and Ive never been a long term active member of either of the two churches mentioned, however, I have read extensively of their own published material and oppossing material published by church opponents. Still, my views have been slanted by my dub experience and research. I see it all thru the Ex Dub filter I have. A long term Mormon might be able to present evidence completely contradicting my viewpoint. So its by no means claimed to be an absolute fact.Still, I think theres a pattern there, worthy , at least, of consideration.
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  Beck_Melbourne

  D8TA...you're a legend...I could never keep up with all the reading on here, I wish I could but sometimes I will print stuff off and take it home to read without any distractions...but I try not to do that too often.

  Refiners...if I tell ya, I'm gonna have to kills ya!

  Prisca...you're a bit late aint ya honey...you being the president I thought you would have got here first

  You're gonna have to work on timing if you want to keep your place at the top of the ladder.

  Beck